Black = Education-less?

[firecracker08]

Maybe that's where the mindset comes from. Often I think people believe they don't have a choice. But the options are out there. We just have to show those we can how to take advantage of them.

I keep it moving when I hear crap about being educated means I'm less black. I can't let that ignorance enter my personal space.

[black_princess]

Originally Posted by firecracker08

I can't let that ignorance enter my personal space.

I love that quote . . I might have to "borrow" that . . I hope that's

[firecracker08]

The Racial Politics of Speaking Well
By LYNETTE CLEMETSON

NYTimes

WASHINGTON

SENATOR JOSEPH R. BIDEN’S characterization of his fellow Democratic presidential contender Senator Barack Obama as “the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy” was so painfully clumsy that it nearly warranted pity.

There are not enough column inches on this page to parse interpretations of each of Mr. Biden’s chosen adjectives. But among his string of loaded words, one is so pervasive — and is generally used and viewed so differently by blacks and whites — that it calls out for a national chat, perhaps a national therapy session.

It is amazing that this still requires clarification, but here it is. Black people get a little testy when white people call them “articulate.”

Though it was little noted, on Wednesday President Bush on the Fox News Channel also described Mr. Obama as “articulate.” On any given day, in any number of settings, it is likely to be one of the first things white people warmly remark about Oprah Winfrey; Richard Parsons, chief executive of Time Warner; Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice; Deval Patrick, the newly elected governor of Massachusetts; or a recently promoted black colleague at work.

A series of conversations about the word with a number of black public figures last week elicited the kind of frustrated responses often uttered between blacks, but seldom shared with whites.

“You hear it and you just think, ‘Damn, this again?’ ” said Michael Eric Dyson, a professor of humanities at the University of Pennsylvania.

Anna Perez, the former communications counselor for Ms. Rice when she was national security adviser, said, “You just stand and wonder, ‘When will this foolishness end?’ ”

Said Reginald Hudlin, president of entertainment for Black Entertainment Television: “It makes me weary, literally tired, like, ‘Do I really want to spend my time right now educating this person?’ ”

So what is the problem with the word? Whites do not normally object when it is used to describe them. And it is not as if articulate black people do not wish to be thought of as that. The characterization is most often meant as a form of praise.

“Look, what I was attempting to be, but not very artfully, is complimentary,” Mr. Biden explained to Jon Stewart on Wednesday on “The Daily Show.” “This is an incredible guy. This is a phenomenon.”

What faint praise, indeed. Being articulate must surely be a baseline requirement for a former president of The Harvard Law Review. After all, Webster’s definitions of the word include “able to speak” and “expressing oneself easily and clearly.” It would be more incredible, more of a phenomenon, to borrow two more of the senator’s puzzling words, if Mr. Obama were inarticulate.

That is the core of the issue. When whites use the word in reference to blacks, it often carries a subtext of amazement, even bewilderment. It is similar to praising a female executive or politician by calling her “tough” or “a rational decision-maker.”

“When people say it, what they are really saying is that someone is articulate ... for a black person,” Ms. Perez said.

Such a subtext is inherently offensive because it suggests that the recipient of the “compliment” is notably different from other black people.

“Historically, it was meant to signal the exceptional Negro,” Mr. Dyson said. “The implication is that most black people do not have the capacity to engage in articulate speech, when white people are automatically assumed to be articulate.”

And such distinctions discount as inarticulate historically black patterns of speech. “Al Sharpton is incredibly articulate,” said Tricia Rose, professor of Africana Studies at Brown University. “But because he speaks with a cadence and style that is firmly rooted in black rhetorical tradition you will rarely hear white people refer to him as articulate.”

While many white people do not automatically recognize how, and how often, the word is applied, many black people can recall with clarity the numerous times it has stopped them in their tracks.

Melissa Harris-Lacewell, professor of politics and African-American studies at Princeton University, said her first notable encounter with the word was back in high school in Chester, Va., when she was dating the school’s star football player. In post-game interviews and news stories she started to notice that he was always referred to as articulate.

“They never said that about the white quarterback,” she said, “yet they couldn’t help but say it about my boyfriend.”

William E. Kennard, a managing director of the Carlyle Group and a former chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, recalled that in his days as partner at a Washington law firm in the early 1990s written reviews of prospective black hires almost always included the words, “articulate and poised.” The characterization was so consistent and in such stark contrast to the notes taken on white job applicants that he mentioned it to his fellow partners.

“It was a law firm; all of the people interviewing for jobs were articulate,” said Mr. Kennard, 50, who is also on the board of The New York Times Company. “And yet my colleagues seemed struck by that quality in black applicants.”

The comedian and actor D. L. Hughley, a frequent guest on HBO’s “Real Time With Bill Maher,” says that every time he appears on the show, where he riffs on the political and social issues of the day, people walk up to him afterward and tell him how “smart and articulate” his comments were.

“Everyone was up in arms about Michael Richards using the N-word, but subtle words like this are more insidious,” Mr. Hughley said. “It’s like weight loss. The last few pounds are the hardest to get rid of. It’s the last vestiges of racism that are hard to get rid of.”

Sometimes the “articulate” moniker is merely implied. My colleague Rachel Swarns and I chuckle wearily about the number of times we have finished interviews or casual conversations with people — always white, more often male — only to have the person end the meeting with some version of the statement, “something about you reminds me of Condoleezza Rice.”

Neither Rachel nor I look anything like Ms. Rice, or each other for that matter, so the comparison is clearly not physical. The comment seems more a vocalized reach by the speaker for some sort of reference point, a context in which to understand us.

It is unlikely that whites will quickly or easily erase “articulate” and other damning forms of praise from the ways in which they discuss blacks. Listen for it in post-Super Bowl chatter, after the Academy Awards, at the next school board meeting or corporate retreat.

But here is a pointer. Do not use it as the primary attribute of note for a black person if you would not use it for a similarly talented, skilled or eloquent white person. Do not make it an outsized distinction for Brown University’s president, Ruth Simmons, if you would not for the University of Michigan’s president, Mary Sue Coleman. Do not make it the sole basis for your praise of the actor Forest Whitaker if it would never cross your mind to utter it about the expressive Peter O’Toole.

With the ballooning size of the black middle and upper class, qualities in blacks like intelligence, eloquence — the mere ability to string sentences together with tenses intact — must at some point become as unremarkable to whites as they are to blacks.

“How many flukes simply constitute reality?” Mr. Hudlin asked, with amused dismay.

Well said.

[lovelyivy84]

Good article. It reminds me of Chris Rock's rant about Colin Powell being referred to as "well-spoken" a few years back. It's hard to know how to take that one- I GENERALLY give people the benefit of the doubt on saying I am articulate or well-spoken (since I am) and just go by their general attitude and how they treat folks.

[pinkies up]

What, are we supposed to say "I be goin' to dah job ere day"? I hate it more when white southerners tell me that I speak very well and then ask me if I went to private school.

[raggann03]

Originally Posted by mccoyred

This is the same mindset that is causing our children to 'dumb down' in grade school. I always reiterate to my children that good grades and education gives you CHOICES. Many of us just don't get it...

This is something I've dealt with personally. I remember "dumbing down" around the 4th grade after I had been told repeatedly by my peers that "I think I know everything", and "you always gotta answer for something". So I shut up, stopped reading those encyclopedia's my mother bought for me and just coasted through school. Even though my parents were educated I placed more value on the messages being sent to me by my peers than them. It took a long time to shake that mentality. In the small town I come from you aren't given options, if you aren't considered smart they don't try to invest anything into you. Many are labeled in grade school and not even given the chance to consider college. I had hoped this mentality was changing

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by firecracker08

The Racial Politics of Speaking Well
By LYNETTE CLEMETSON

NYTimes

WASHINGTON

SENATOR JOSEPH R. BIDEN’S characterization of his fellow Democratic presidential contender Senator Barack Obama as “the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy” was so painfully clumsy that it nearly warranted pity.

There are not enough column inches on this page to parse interpretations of each of Mr. Biden’s chosen adjectives. But among his string of loaded words, one is so pervasive — and is generally used and viewed so differently by blacks and whites — that it calls out for a national chat, perhaps a national therapy session.

It is amazing that this still requires clarification, but here it is. Black people get a little testy when white people call them “articulate.”

Though it was little noted, on Wednesday President Bush on the Fox News Channel also described Mr. Obama as “articulate.” On any given day, in any number of settings, it is likely to be one of the first things white people warmly remark about Oprah Winfrey; Richard Parsons, chief executive of Time Warner; Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice; Deval Patrick, the newly elected governor of Massachusetts; or a recently promoted black colleague at work.

A series of conversations about the word with a number of black public figures last week elicited the kind of frustrated responses often uttered between blacks, but seldom shared with whites.

“You hear it and you just think, ‘Damn, this again?’ ” said Michael Eric Dyson, a professor of humanities at the University of Pennsylvania.

Anna Perez, the former communications counselor for Ms. Rice when she was national security adviser, said, “You just stand and wonder, ‘When will this foolishness end?’ ”

Said Reginald Hudlin, president of entertainment for Black Entertainment Television: “It makes me weary, literally tired, like, ‘Do I really want to spend my time right now educating this person?’ ”

So what is the problem with the word? Whites do not normally object when it is used to describe them. And it is not as if articulate black people do not wish to be thought of as that. The characterization is most often meant as a form of praise.

“Look, what I was attempting to be, but not very artfully, is complimentary,” Mr. Biden explained to Jon Stewart on Wednesday on “The Daily Show.” “This is an incredible guy. This is a phenomenon.”

What faint praise, indeed. Being articulate must surely be a baseline requirement for a former president of The Harvard Law Review. After all, Webster’s definitions of the word include “able to speak” and “expressing oneself easily and clearly.” It would be more incredible, more of a phenomenon, to borrow two more of the senator’s puzzling words, if Mr. Obama were inarticulate.

That is the core of the issue. When whites use the word in reference to blacks, it often carries a subtext of amazement, even bewilderment. It is similar to praising a female executive or politician by calling her “tough” or “a rational decision-maker.”

“When people say it, what they are really saying is that someone is articulate ... for a black person,” Ms. Perez said.

Such a subtext is inherently offensive because it suggests that the recipient of the “compliment” is notably different from other black people.

“Historically, it was meant to signal the exceptional Negro,” Mr. Dyson said. “The implication is that most black people do not have the capacity to engage in articulate speech, when white people are automatically assumed to be articulate.”

And such distinctions discount as inarticulate historically black patterns of speech. “Al Sharpton is incredibly articulate,” said Tricia Rose, professor of Africana Studies at Brown University. “But because he speaks with a cadence and style that is firmly rooted in black rhetorical tradition you will rarely hear white people refer to him as articulate.”

While many white people do not automatically recognize how, and how often, the word is applied, many black people can recall with clarity the numerous times it has stopped them in their tracks.

Melissa Harris-Lacewell, professor of politics and African-American studies at Princeton University, said her first notable encounter with the word was back in high school in Chester, Va., when she was dating the school’s star football player. In post-game interviews and news stories she started to notice that he was always referred to as articulate.

“They never said that about the white quarterback,” she said, “yet they couldn’t help but say it about my boyfriend.”

William E. Kennard, a managing director of the Carlyle Group and a former chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, recalled that in his days as partner at a Washington law firm in the early 1990s written reviews of prospective black hires almost always included the words, “articulate and poised.” The characterization was so consistent and in such stark contrast to the notes taken on white job applicants that he mentioned it to his fellow partners.

“It was a law firm; all of the people interviewing for jobs were articulate,” said Mr. Kennard, 50, who is also on the board of The New York Times Company. “And yet my colleagues seemed struck by that quality in black applicants.”

The comedian and actor D. L. Hughley, a frequent guest on HBO’s “Real Time With Bill Maher,” says that every time he appears on the show, where he riffs on the political and social issues of the day, people walk up to him afterward and tell him how “smart and articulate” his comments were.

“Everyone was up in arms about Michael Richards using the N-word, but subtle words like this are more insidious,” Mr. Hughley said. “It’s like weight loss. The last few pounds are the hardest to get rid of. It’s the last vestiges of racism that are hard to get rid of.”

Sometimes the “articulate” moniker is merely implied. My colleague Rachel Swarns and I chuckle wearily about the number of times we have finished interviews or casual conversations with people — always white, more often male — only to have the person end the meeting with some version of the statement, “something about you reminds me of Condoleezza Rice.”

Neither Rachel nor I look anything like Ms. Rice, or each other for that matter, so the comparison is clearly not physical. The comment seems more a vocalized reach by the speaker for some sort of reference point, a context in which to understand us.

It is unlikely that whites will quickly or easily erase “articulate” and other damning forms of praise from the ways in which they discuss blacks. Listen for it in post-Super Bowl chatter, after the Academy Awards, at the next school board meeting or corporate retreat.

But here is a pointer. Do not use it as the primary attribute of note for a black person if you would not use it for a similarly talented, skilled or eloquent white person. Do not make it an outsized distinction for Brown University’s president, Ruth Simmons, if you would not for the University of Michigan’s president, Mary Sue Coleman. Do not make it the sole basis for your praise of the actor Forest Whitaker if it would never cross your mind to utter it about the expressive Peter O’Toole.

With the ballooning size of the black middle and upper class, qualities in blacks like intelligence, eloquence — the mere ability to string sentences together with tenses intact — must at some point become as unremarkable to whites as they are to blacks.

“How many flukes simply constitute reality?” Mr. Hudlin asked, with amused dismay.

Well said.

I love it! Thanks for posting!

[MzDoctaKay]

Originally Posted by pinkies up

What, are we supposed to say "I be goin' to dah job ere day"? I hate it more when white southerners tell me that I speak very well and then ask me if I went to private school.

You'd be surprised ......

[madmax]

Originally Posted by MzDoctaKay

Why is it perceived by our Black peers that in order to be an activist, "grass roots", or revolutionary for a specific cause, one cannot be educated? I participated in a Free Mumia! protest about 8 years ago in Philadelphia and was told that because I had advanced degrees that I've "lost touch" with my Blackness.... certainly welcomed.

~Princess

Anyone that participates in a Free Mumia rally is not educated.

Who would go to a rally for a murderer?


FRY Mumia!!

[ladygreek]

@dmost, you might want to check the dates of the posts to which you are responding.

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

@dmost, you might want to check the dates of the posts to which you are responding.

I am actually glad this topic came up.

I was at my cousin's house and was having a conversation with her step-mother, Kay, who was telling us about how her grandson got in trouble with his mother, her son's baby mama. Kay kept her grandson for several weeks over the summer (he was about 3 or so) and the child's mother told Kay that she better not keep teaching her son to 'act white'. In exasperation, Kay explained to us that the child now says 'Please' and 'Ma'am' and excuses himself when he needs to interrupt a conversation, in the babymama's words, acting white. Kay is trying to teach the child some home training and this hoodrat of a babymama is trying to teach the child to stay ignorant. Shame.....

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by mccoyred

I am actually glad this topic came up.

I was at my cousin's house and was having a conversation with her step-mother, Kay, who was telling us about how her grandson got in trouble with his mother, her son's baby mama. Kay kept her grandson for several weeks over the summer (he was about 3 or so) and the child's mother told Kay that she better not keep teaching her son to 'act white'. In exasperation, Kay explained to us that the child now says 'Please' and 'Ma'am' and excuses himself when he needs to interrupt a conversation, in the babymama's words, acting white. Kay is trying to teach the child some home training and this hoodrat of a babymama is trying to teach the child to stay ignorant. Shame.....

That's horrible. People share this sentiment on the college level too, though. I am very well spoken, but when I was an undergrad, I had several people look at me funny when I pronounced words correctly. I'm like "Are you serious? Why are you here if you want to remain ignorant?"

[tld221]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

That's horrible. People share this sentiment on the college level too, though. I am very well spoken, but when I was an undergrad, I had several people look at me funny when I pronounced words correctly. I'm like "Are you serious? Why are you here if you want to remain ignorant?"

Seriously - my freshman year, my white friends said i sounded too "black" when pronouncing words like "water" and "dinner" (r-less-ness and all) but my black friends said i sounded too white pronouncing "milk" and "mother."

i didnt even know you can pronounce "milk" any other way!

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by tld221

Seriously - my freshman year, my white friends said i sounded too "black" when pronouncing words like "water" and "dinner" (r-less-ness and all) but my black friends said i sounded too white pronouncing "milk" and "mother."

IIRC, you're in NYC, right? When I lived on the east coast, I only heard "water" and "dinner" pronounced one way (black, white, or otherwise). Interesting.

i didnt even know you can pronounce "milk" any other way!

Exactly! lol

I actually started going out of my way to make sure folks used proper grammar when speaking with me (ex. I'd correct them mid-sentence). When I started doing that, I didn't really hear much about my "white-isms" :shrug:

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

IIRC, you're in NYC, right? When I lived on the east coast, I only heard "water" and "dinner" pronounced one way (black, white, or otherwise). Interesting.



Exactly! lol

I actually started going out of my way to make sure folks used proper grammar when speaking with me (ex. I'd correct them mid-sentence). When I started doing that, I didn't really hear much about my "white-isms" :shrug:

You have to remember though, she went to NYU IIRC. If so, then most of the people she knew were probably from out of state. I met a group of 8 NYU undergrads recently, and only 2 or 3 of them were locals.