Not Religious and Interested in Fraternity Recruitment

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by jazing

That is actually a phrase coined to King Hillel.

Which he probably learned while living in Babylon, where he was born, as it dates back to at least 1500 years before him to the Code of Hammurabi. The reality is almost every religion (if not every religion and indeed every society) has some form of the Golden Rule.

Lilgiant2016, check these threads:

Atheists as members

Christianity in ritual

Religion and GLOs

As you will see from these threads, there are (a few?) fraternities that will expect members to affirm belief in a Supreme Being (the main one I can think of being one that you have mentioned), and there are fraternities where the religious aspects will be more pronounced than others. (Again, a handful come to mind.) There are also many fraternities that will be pretty much non-sectarian.

Go to rush events, get to know the guys and I bet you'll get a good feel for where you'd fit in.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I think there's a similar issue with sororities, although there are 2 NPC sororities on record as being nonsectarian. I

Actually, there are three (Alpha Omicron Pi, Delta Phi Epsilon and Phi Sigma Sigma). AOII may not have explicitly stated it, but the fact that the founders were both Jewish and Christian pretty much says it for me.

As far as fraternities, Pi Lambda Phi comes up as the first non-sectarian fraternity through a quick googling. However, part of their creed is that they "pledge allegiance to my country, and to its national symbol."

Lilgiant2016, have you sat out the PoA because of the under God part, or because of the concept of the thing?

[jazing]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Actually, there are three (Alpha Omicron Pi, Delta Phi Epsilon and Phi Sigma Sigma). AOII may not have explicitly stated it, but the fact that the founders were both Jewish and Christian pretty much says it for me.

As far as fraternities, Pi Lambda Phi comes up as the first non-sectarian fraternity through a quick googling. However, part of their creed is that they "pledge allegiance to my country, and to its national symbol."

Lilgiant2016, have you sat out the PoA because of the under God part, or because of the concept of the thing?

While Pi Lambda Phi says non-sectarian, all three of their founders were of Jewish ideals. They can even be considered the first Jewish fraternity, except they didn't limit their admittance like ZBT would a few years later. A lot of their chapters back in the day (one of our chapters brothers is a legacy) pushed the Jewish aspect.

[Lilgiant2016]

I agree 33girl, which is why I don't think I will have a problem with most groups. I have tried to google references to religion and specific fraternities, but have only come up with Kappa Sig as a definite requirement and Sigma Chi as most likely a no. I understand the need to keep ritual sacred, but I would hate to be moved in the house and ready to initiate only to be told that my lack of religious beliefs mean I am ineligible.
I consider myself a very moral person and the golden rule isn't counter to my beliefs. I was also raised to be respectful of others' faith since we all need something to believe in throughout our lives. But I couldn't be a Boy Scout when I was a child because they require a belief in God so I wouldn't want to make a false oath for a much more important part of my life.

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by Lilgiant2016

I agree 33girl, which is why I don't think I will have a problem with most groups. I have tried to google references to religion and specific fraternities, but have only come up with Kappa Sig as a definite requirement and Sigma Chi as most likely a no. I understand the need to keep ritual sacred, but I would hate to be moved in the house and ready to initiate only to be told that my lack of religious beliefs mean I am ineligible.
I consider myself a very moral person and the golden rule isn't counter to my beliefs. I was also raised to be respectful of others' faith since we all need something to believe in throughout our lives. But I couldn't be a Boy Scout when I was a child because they require a belief in God so I wouldn't want to make a false oath for a much more important part of my life.

I don't think you would find yourself in any situation in which you are "ineligible" but you very well may find yourself being "uncomfortable".

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by Lilgiant2016

I have tried to google references to religion and specific fraternities, but have only come up with Kappa Sig as a definite requirement and Sigma Chi as most likely a no. I understand the need to keep ritual sacred, but I would hate to be moved in the house and ready to initiate only to be told that my lack of religious beliefs mean I am ineligible.

[Lilgiant2016]

OK, so my grammar was messed up there, but am I wrong? I read a few articles about requiring potential pledges to affirm in writing belief in an ever-living God.

I didn't mean any lack of respect for Sigma Chi.

[jazing]

I think if the chapter is very upfront about their religious ideals, it makes a difference (as most of our chapters are). But if they aren't, then you shouldn't be worried.

From knowing my ritual, there really isn't much someone who isn't Jewish would not understand. Just a lot of the meaning comes from Jewish symbols and beliefs.

[Lilgiant2016]

Uncomfortable I can deal with, but getting kicked out I can't. I have remained silent for the Pledge of Allegience most of my life, so I have no problem being silent with other parts as well.

Thank you again for your responses. I will check in tomorrow after school.

[AOII Angel]

The golden rule is from the Jewish tradition.

I like the "in God we trust" mentality brought up by Pike2001. Ritual is meant to describe the ideals of the organization in which you belong. Most were written at a time in which religion was the driving force in the lives of the educated. Times have changed, but we are able to still find value in the thoughts of our Founder's with out being dogmatic about the source.

[knight_shadow]

^^ I'm going to kick all of y'all in the shins lol

I don't have to be a devout ANYTHING to appreciate the GR

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Honestly, I think you are limiting yourself unnecessarily if you won't even consider a fraternity because of what might happen to be in its ritual. Some of us choose to view ritual as a historical connection to our founders, that reflects the time in which it was written, and not modern-day realities. Putting my hand on a bible means nothing, because the bible means nothing to me. Believe me, nobody in my initiating chapter cared.

When you go through rush, I think it will be obvious if a fraternity's brothers are especially Christian (or Jewish, I suppose), and you would truly be a bad fit. But for the most part, lot of people (everyone?) question their faith in their college years, and you are not betraying your brothers to go through the motions of ritual without meaning some parts.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

When you go through rush, I think it will be obvious if a fraternity's brothers are especially Christian (or Jewish, I suppose), and you would truly be a bad fit. But for the most part, lot of people (everyone?) question their faith in their college years, and you are not betraying your brothers to go through the motions of ritual without meaning some parts.

This.

Honestly, when I saw the title for this thread, my first thought was "and so?"

[33girl]

I think that in some parts of the country (like the Deep South) it truly would be an issue. I give the OP major credit for not wanting to promise anything he doesn't believe in. We're always getting told to "live our ritual," well, he is doing that before he even gets a bid. Which is awesome. It doesn't sound like this is a "questioning" thing, rather, this is something he's studied and thought about a lot and truly committed to.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

We're always getting told to "live our ritual,"

By whom?

And to give an example from Phi Mu's open creed, it says I should "reverence God as our Maker, striving to serve Him in all things." What does is even mean to "live my ritual" in that sense?

Contrast with "To be to others what we would they would be to us." That one's pretty clear. Live the golden rule. Okay!

I think, at their core, fraternity and sorority values are more alike than different, regardless of how they were expressed in words 150+ years ago. I also think that their expression in individual chapters does not correspond to the rituals themselves, i.e. the most religious chapter on campus does not necessarily have the most references to god in its ritual. In the example Jazing posted just above me, a guy could join thinking "non-religious, cool" and then find himself feeling out of place when everyone goes home for Rosh Hashanah (see also: Theta at U of M).