kappa sigma at fgcu?

[Rambler1869]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

If everything was handled properly, why are you all here complaining?

We didnt start this discussion. In terms of why we are here now... Personally, I simply wanted to explain our side as there were a number of misconceptions surrounding what has been happening.
Our complaint, as I said earlier, is that this group of men have been denied the right to even apply as an RSO; thus not allowed to use the same facilities granted to organizations of the exact same type.
IFC recognition would be the ideal; but we also acknowledge their right to grant or deny membership. However, we do not believe that the school has any grounds to deny any organization to register and use facilities, that is peaceful and does not disrupt the education of another student.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Knight Shadow- so you think it is okay for FGCU, as a public institution, to deny groups from being officially recognized, but allow the fraternities already on campus to operate and enjoy all the freedoms that come with official recognition? I just want to make sure I have that straight. It's a slippery slope my fraternal friend, because where does it end? And why exactly do you think it's okay for FGCU, a public institution, to recognize certain fraternities but deny recognition to others?? I'l' take the questions one step further so we avoid the answer" "because its the rule." Knight Shadow, please analyze the rule. What is constitutional about FGCU, a publicly funded university, granting official recognition to certain groups and denying other groups that same recognition.

Please see my post above.

ETA: At some point, are you going to answer the questions asked of you?

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Ok Knight Shadow, please, as Scrambler asked, point to ONE rule we have broken. One.

Have you answered any of the questions asked of you?

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Knight Shadow, I'll say it again. Once we were "formed" which only means we had a group on campus who wanted to be in kappa Sigma, FGCU gave us NO RULES TO FOLLOW! Rules would be a checklist for recognition. We were told, flat out, that we wouldn't be recognized by FGCU without IFC (students) first recognizing us. That is discrimination, as we see it. Again, we were not given rules to follow to be recognized, we were told we can't be recognized.

What happened to the "we don't want to colonize right now, you'll need to wait 5 years" argument?

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

I'm on board with no more insults, as I think MysticCat and I are getting somewhere. But I really can't understand your above question Knight Rider.

Knight Rider? Really? I digress...

It was brought up earlier that KS was told that they'd have to wait 5 years before being recognized. One of the posters (not sure if it was you) said that was unacceptable and felt that KS was entitled to being recognized RIGHT AWAY, regardless of what the rules stated.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Again, thank you and sorry for my insults, I'm aggressive by nature.

Welcome to GC where you are a goldfish among sharks.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

MysticCat, thank you. . . .

You still didn't answer the question, so I'll take it that my assumption is correct and you don't have any legal training.

As far as I know, no effort was made to seek review of the Sigma Chi case in the Supreme Court. And yes, I think the holding is correct would likely be mirrored in most courts. Leonie Brinkema isn't a lightweight.

And apology accepted.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Do you know of Sigma Chi has appealed to the SCOTUS?

Originally Posted by MysticCat

As far as I know, no effort was made to seek review of the Sigma Chi case in the Supreme Court. And yes, I think the holding is correct would likely be mirrored in most courts. Leonie Brinkema isn't a lightweight.

My understanding is the same. As such, Iota Xi efforts - with the support of HQ - is toward reducing the campus imposed suspension.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Any other case cites? These are helpful.

I'll leave it to your lawyer to do your research.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Mystic you called the differences "irrelevant" earlier in reference to your stance on official recognition affecting freedom of association rights for expressive organizations, which ignores the equal protection analysis. What say you about equal protection? Seems like a university would have to have disciplinary sanctions to get around the EP argument, so I'm not comfortable this holding would be applied in other courts, at all.

It doesn't ignore the equal protection analysis, it's part of the equal protection analysis. The court in Iota Xi Chapter found there there was no deprivation of expressive associational rights because lack of recognition in no way affected the rights of the chapter's members to associate with each other. If there is no deprivation of rights, there is no valid equal protection claim.

Equal protection is also where similarly situated organizations come into play. The chapter would have to show that it is being treated differently from other similarly situated organizations, which would in this case be other chapters attempting to come onto campus.

[Rambler1869]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Equal protection is also where similarly situated organizations come into play. The chapter would have to show that it is being treated differently from other similarly situated organizations, which would in this case be other chapters attempting to come onto campus.

Isnt that rather the point to be made? Kappa Sigma is not being allowed the same rights as other similarly treated organizations? Until very recently, they were even denied access to the applications necessary to become an RSO.

What makes that interesting; is the school then turns around when asked and claims Kappa Sigma never applied... only interesting, when they weren't allowed to apply.

Put aside where they can or cannot be for meetings... what are your thoughts on equal access to even attempt to apply for any recognition (either by school or IFC)

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Rambler1869

Isnt that rather the point to be made? Kappa Sigma is not being allowed the same rights as other similarly treated organizations? Until very recently, they were even denied access to the applications necessary to become an RSO.

See my earlier comment.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I'm also aware that many of us on a message board may have a very incomplete understanding of what has actually happened at FGCU, and that a better understanding may change our thinking (including possibly my "similarly situated" argument).

Judging solely from the not-always-consistent description I have seen here, I don't think I see a real equal protection argument.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by KSigAdvisor

Still curious as to why you would support universities being able to deny meeting rooms on campus?

And still curious on why you will not answer what was wrong with Choice #1 and why you refuse to acknowledge or answer why you are using NIC resolutions when you are not a member of NIC.

[Rambler1869]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

And still curious on why you will not answer what was wrong with Choice #1 and why you refuse to acknowledge or answer why you are using NIC resolutions when you are not a member of NIC.

I think that one should be obvious by now... We do not feel the school's position is correct. Kappa Sigma absolutely does want to be part of the FGCU greek system; and it is having its place there; as requested by the students.

Kappa Sigma made a decision to support the students who wanted this fraternities presence at FGCU, despite the uphill battle they knew it would be.

In terms of the NIC; each of the members at FGCU have given their support nationally to Kappa Sigma; even knowing that Kappa Sigma is not a member of NIC. I believe it shows that giving this support to a non-member; is evident that open expansion is the wish of all nationals. I believe that almost all, if not all actually gave this support in writing. The only one I am not 100% sure if we have a written letter from is Sigma Chi - however I know that they at least did provide a verbal pledge of support for Kappa Sigma at FGCU.
So, no Kappa Sigma is not part of NIC; but every member still supports Kappa Sigma.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Rambler1869

I think that one should be obvious by now... We do not feel the school's position is correct. Kappa Sigma absolutely does want to be part of the FGCU greek system; and it is having its place there; as requested by the students.

Kappa Sigma made a decision to support the students who wanted this fraternities presence at FGCU, despite the uphill battle they knew it would be.

In terms of the NIC; each of the members at FGCU have given their support nationally to Kappa Sigma; even knowing that Kappa Sigma is not a member of NIC. I believe it shows that giving this support to a non-member; is evident that open expansion is the wish of all nationals. I believe that almost all, if not all actually gave this support in writing. The only one I am not 100% sure if we have a written letter from is Sigma Chi - however I know that they at least did provide a verbal pledge of support for Kappa Sigma at FGCU.
So, no Kappa Sigma is not part of NIC; but every member still supports Kappa Sigma.

That's another issue that's irking me. All of the chapters are contradicting their respective I/HQs by voting against KS? Doesn't sound right.