AOII Eliminates Legacy Policy

[carnation]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I don't know all of the terminology for your different rounds. Is pref the last round before bids are given out? If so, if she makes it that far and doesn't make the cut, doesn't that mean that there are others who the chapter thought would be a better fit than her? Are you saying it's better to fit a round peg into a square hole because of who her mother is?

No. If the girl is a bad fit, she's unlikely to make it past early rounds. If she is a good fit, she is likely to go much further. Round pegs won't be making it into square holes at this point, it'll be square pegs and square holes.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by carnation

In a way, I have no dog in the fight because all 9 daughters are grown. But...your alum benefits and ours (and your organization and mine) are obviously not the same and please don't tell us what they should be like. There's really nothing else our organizations can do for us besides this.

Change in itself is NOT the issue. This legacy policy doesn't have a thing to do with diversity and is unlikely to affect anyone except faithful alums who have given years of service and money to their GLOs and now it won't count. I don't blame them for backing out.

I didn't tell you anything about what your org should or shouldn't do. But obviously your organizations have found a need to evolve, so if that evolution means a previous benefit is no more, then perhaps the benefit conversation needs to be had. If you don't think so, more power to y'all.

Originally Posted by carnation

No. If the girl is a bad fit, she's unlikely to make it past early rounds. If she is a good fit, she is likely to go much further. Round pegs won't be making it into square holes at this point, it'll be square pegs and square holes.

Not trying to be argumentative, I'm just honestly trying to understand because it's not clear in my reading of this thread.

So she makes it far into the process, everyone likes her, and everyone wants her. Why would they cut her? If she's a great legacy who is a fit for the chapter wouldn't you rank her high enough to make sure she makes the cut?

Apologies if the terminology is off - trying to tap into my previous GC knowledge of these processes LOL

[carnation]

No, the thing is that a very small number of people think we need to evolve.

OK, say there are 5 rounds of recruitment (5 sets of parties). With most NPCs, a legacy would automatically get asked back to the second round. She could still be cut after 3rd or 4th round but if she was still in the running when the last set of parties (preferential parties/prefs) came around, most NPCs would put her at the top of the bid list with other legacies.

Each sorority has a different system by which their PNMs are scored (not going into that because it involves membership selection) but it is possible for a PNM to be liked very much by the members but not be on the first bid list just because of numbers.

[Sororitysock]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Not trying to be argumentative, I'm just honestly trying to understand because it's not clear in my reading of this thread.

So she makes it far into the process, everyone likes her, and everyone wants her. Why would they cut her? If she's a great legacy who is a fit for the chapter wouldn't you rank her high enough to make sure she makes the cut?

Apologies if the terminology is off - trying to tap into my previous GC knowledge of these processes LOL

Everyone who is invited to your preference (final) round has the potential to become your sister whether she's a legacy or not. If she doesn't initially get a space on your first bid list, she can end up with a bid if she ranks you #1 and you don't reach quota by the time you get to the end of your first bid list. Why don't you get to quota on the first pass on your bid list? Because some of those women may have ranked their other preference sorority as their #1 and they were on that sorority's first bid list. This is the "mutual selection" we talk about. The point is, you should only be inviting women to your preference round that you can see as a sister, because it's very possible that women who might not be comparably as desirable could end up on your bid list via the reason above or by playing by the rules so they make it as a quota addition. So if a sorority invites you to preference, they want you and that little perk of being a legacy puts her at the top of the bid list. If your bylaws change, I think it's cruel to invite a legacy back for preference with no intention of putting her on the first bid list.

I don't have a problem with dropping legacies who you know won't fit after the first round, but it's that dropping after preference that bothers me.

Some southern chapters have been dropping legacies after first round for several years; all with the blessing of the HQ. those are the chapters where the number of legacies rushing comes or even exceeds expected quota. Otherwise those chapters and pledge classes would be composed of all legacies.

Hopefully that makes sense. It's difficult to write about this without talking about membership selection.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by Sororitysock

I don't have a problem with dropping legacies who you know won't fit after the first round, but it's that dropping after preference that bothers me.

Some southern chapters have been dropping legacies after first round for several years; all with the blessing of the HQ. those are the chapters where the number of legacies rushing comes or even exceeds expected quota. Otherwise those chapters and pledge classes would be composed of all legacies.

^^^ All this!

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by carnation

In a way, I have no dog in the fight because all 9 daughters are grown. But...your alum benefits and ours (and your organization and mine) are obviously not the same and please don't tell us what they should be like. There's really nothing else our organizations can do for us besides this.

Change in itself is NOT the issue. This legacy policy doesn't have a thing to do with diversity and is unlikely to affect anyone except faithful alums who have given years of service and money to their GLOs and now it won't count. I don't blame them for backing out.

"There's really nothing else our organizations can do for us" and this is "unlikely to affect anyone except faithful alums" and now their effort and money "won't count"? You make it sound like alumnae are trying to buy their daughter's way into a chapter and this is the only benefit in membership they have left. If that's the case, I guess my membership and donations are meaningless because I don't have daughters. I don't know if it was your intention to say this, but wow this sounded all kinds of wrong.

Originally Posted by Sororitysock

I don't have a problem with dropping legacies who you know won't fit after the first round, but it's that dropping after preference that bothers me.

Some southern chapters have been dropping legacies after first round for several years; all with the blessing of the HQ. those are the chapters where the number of legacies rushing comes or even exceeds expected quota. Otherwise those chapters and pledge classes would be composed of all legacies.

Originally Posted by carnation

^^^ All this!

Hey, we agree on something! I could get on board with the idea of a legacy policy that doesn't require carrying anyone through first round but that gives "preferential treatment" to legacies at pref. I do still think there will be some angry moms during first round wondering why their legacy daughters weren't given a chance, but clearly the anger level increases as rounds go on.

I guess the one reason I can't totally get on board with this concept though is the nagging question I keep coming back to: who's actually upset about this? Is it the legacy who was released, or mom who always pictured her daughter joining ABC sorority?

If it's only the latter, why are we clinging to these policies?

[carnation]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

"There's really nothing else our organizations can do for us" and this is "unlikely to affect anyone except faithful alums" and now their effort and money "won't count"? You make it sound like alumnae are trying to buy their daughter's way into a chapter and this is the only benefit in membership they have left. If that's the case, I guess my membership and donations are meaningless because I don't have daughters. I don't know if it was your intention to say this, but wow this sounded all kinds of wrong.

Hey, we agree on something! I could get on board with the idea of a legacy policy that doesn't require carrying anyone through first round but that gives "preferential treatment" to legacies at pref. I do still think there will be some angry moms during first round wondering why their legacy daughters weren't given a chance, but clearly the anger level increases as rounds go on.

I guess the one reason I can't totally get on board with this concept though is the nagging question I keep coming back to: who's actually upset about this? Is it the legacy who was released, or mom who always pictured her daughter joining ABC sorority?

If it's only the latter, why are we clinging to these policies?

Sometimes an alum works hard for a nearby chapter in hopes that they'll notice her daughter, in addition to wanting to work for her sorority. At times it works-- the chapter notices her work ethic, meets her daughter, and likes her. This past week, I've seen a lot of people sneer at women who hope or had hoped that their daughters would pledge their group and there is NOTHING wrong with that. They cherished their days as actives and would love to be there to initiate their daughters.

Sometimes the daughter wants this too and sometimes it's only mom. I have seen this with sisters too; sometimes they want to be sorority sisters as well but sometimes the younger one seeks something different.

As far as not continuing to support a chapter who dropped her daughter? I understand that. I know 3 different women who were working in their sorority chapter's kitchen during recruitment when someone came back and told them that the chapter had cut their daughter. Every one of those women left immediately and when their daughters pledged other sororities, the moms immediately started working their hearts out for the other sororities. Not a person who knew any of these women, both moms and daughters, faulted the moms for never darkening the doors of their chapters again.