AOII Eliminates Legacy Policy

[PersistentDST]

Originally Posted by Sen's Revenge

And if I was an NPHC advisor, I would tell my students that they are not to perform steps and strolls at recruitment events, especially not in all-Greek events. That is not what we were founded for and it sends the wrong signal to everyone in the audience.

Right, the last thing we need is to be the evenings entertainment.




I understand that I don’t have a horse in the race and my organization does not have special legacy policies, so I don’t have an opinion either way.

But, please let me know if I’m wrong. I’m trying to understand:

The nature of recruitment is the mutual selection and the importance of “fit” in a chapter, right? So naturally, there will always be legacies who will not end up in their legacy chapter(s), based on fit or numbers, but there will be plenty that do, because the chapter wanted them and they wanted the chapter. I’m assuming in the past the legacies was put on the top of the bid list after Pref, even if the chapter loved other PNM’s more.

So all this is to ask (and again, I’m just trying to understand) if a chapter loves a PNM, regardless of her legacy status, isn’t that who they would ultimately want on the top of their bid list? If the legacy is a great fit, it seems like she would be extended a bid either way. Shouldn’t the individual chapters be able to make those choices?

[carnation]

If the chapter loves the legacy PNM, they know that they better love her a lot because she will be on the top of that list.

[Sororitysock]

Originally Posted by PersistentDST

Right, the last thing we need is to be the evenings entertainment.




I understand that I don’t have a horse in the race and my organization does not have special legacy policies, so I don’t have an opinion either way.

But, please let me know if I’m wrong. I’m trying to understand:

The nature of recruitment is the mutual selection and the importance of “fit” in a chapter, right? So naturally, there will always be legacies who will not end up in their legacy chapter(s), based on fit or numbers, but there will be plenty that do, because the chapter wanted them and they wanted the chapter. I’m assuming in the past the legacies was put on the top of the bid list after Pref, even if the chapter loved other PNM’s more.

So all this is to ask (and again, I’m just trying to understand) if a chapter loves a PNM, regardless of her legacy status, isn’t that who they would ultimately want on the top of their bid list? If the legacy is a great fit, it seems like she would be extended a bid either way. Shouldn’t the individual chapters be able to make those choices?

If a chapter is doing recruitment right, they believe every one of the women coming to their preference parties will be a good fit and they love them. Now, comparably there may be objective differences between two PNMs, it it's not like they're going to have a bunch of 2.5 GPA PNMs when their minimum GPA is a 3.3. So not all PNMs are created equal and legacy status is one of those things that under most policies would give a woman an extra advantage, just like, for instance, a 4.0 GPA may add an extra advantage to a PNM for a super academically oriented chapters.

[PersistentDST]

Originally Posted by Sororitysock

If a chapter is doing recruitment right, they believe every one of the women coming to their preference parties will be a good fit and they love them. Now, comparably there may be objective differences between two PNMs, it it's not like they're going to have a bunch of 2.5 GPA PNMs when their minimum GPA is a 3.3. So not all PNMs are created equal and legacy status is one of those things that under most policies would give a woman an extra advantage, just like, for instance, a 4.0 GPA may add an extra advantage to a PNM for a super academically oriented chapters.

Gotcha, so basically, each PNM would have to be 100% judged on her own merits (grades, recs, fit, etc.).

I could see why there’s disappointment, because many ladies want their daughters/granddaughters/sisters to be their legacies. But I’m sure if the PNM is a fit for the legacy chapter, the policy change shouldn’t be an issue for them either way. Seems like if it’s about each PNM finding their home to have their own experience, legacy or not, they will.

Unless I’m understanding this all wrong. Bless your hearts, because recruitment seems complicated!

[carnation]

It would seem that way but it's a kick in the teeth for moms who want to pin their daughters.

I think it's easier for legacies to pledge their moms' sororities in the NPHC. Today while out walking, I saw our Delta neighbor and I told her about all this and asked her what she would have done if she had pursued Delta (her mom's group too) for years and never been accepted. She looked confused and said that that never would've happened. She called her mother over and asked her if she'd ever heard of that happening to legacies in the local chapter. Her mother said, "No, not even with the girls who were odd as long as they did the correct work they needed to beforehand." (Ha! Mom is blunt. I can imagine the chapter conversations about someone's weird daughter.)

Two other ways the NPHC and the NPC differ: y'all have 4 sororities and we have 26. We have quotas and you don't (neither do NIC fraternities that I know of). Quotas, put in place so that some groups don't take all the top girls and leave other groups to waste away, are part of the reason that we can't pledge all legacies.

[PersistentDST]

Originally Posted by carnation

It would seem that way but it's a kick in the teeth for moms who want to pin their daughters.

I think it's easier for legacies to pledge their moms' sororities in the NPHC. Today while out walking, I saw our Delta neighbor and I told her about all this and asked her what she would have done if she had pursued Delta (her mom's group too) for years and never been accepted. She looked confused and said that that never would've happened. She called her mother over and asked her if she'd ever heard of that happening to legacies in the local chapter. Her mother said, "No, not even with the girls who were odd as long as they did the correct work they needed to beforehand." (Ha! Mom is blunt. I can imagine the chapter conversations about someone's weird daughter.)

Two other ways the NPHC and the NPC differ: y'all have 4 sororities and we have 26. We have quotas and you don't (neither do NIC fraternities that I know of). Quotas, put in place so that some groups don't take all the top girls and leave other groups to waste away, are part of the reason that we can't pledge all legacies.

In my experience, I’ve seen legacies who have been denied for various reasons. It happened to friends of mine in both undergrad and Alumnae. I happen to know a couple of legacies who waited years before getting an opportunity, including two of my line sisters and a few ladies I helped to bring in my Alumnae chapter recently.

My organization does actually have limitations on how many can be brought in. At large schools, HBCU’s, and some Alumnae chapters, where 100’s of interests apply, a legacy can very well be denied because there simply are not enough spots. Unfortunately, this happened to my cousin a couple of years ago. She had a great resume, but the competition was massive. For some chapters, picking all the eligible legacies would eliminate any other qualified women.

It’s not that it’s something that doesn’t matter, but legacies have to research, get to know members in their chapter of interest, support programming, serve their communities and carry themselves well on campus or in the community, just like all other interests. My best friend didn’t tell anyone she was a legacy and the chapter was surprised when her mother showed up at initiation to pin her. Either way she was Delta material and that’ll always shine through! Membership is a privilege extended to each Soror on their merits.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by PersistentDST

In my experience, I’ve seen legacies who have been denied for various reasons. It happened to friends of mine in both undergrad and Alumnae. I happen to know a couple of legacies who waited years before getting an opportunity, including two of my line sisters and a few ladies I helped to bring in my Alumnae chapter recently.

My organization does actually have limitations on how many can be brought in. At large schools, HBCU’s, and some Alumnae chapters, where 100’s of interests apply, a legacy can very well be denied because there simply are not enough spots. Unfortunately, this happened to my cousin a couple of years ago. She had a great resume, but the competition was massive. For some chapters, picking all the eligible legacies would eliminate any other qualified women.

It’s not that it’s something that doesn’t matter, but legacies have to research, get to know members in their chapter of interest, support programming, serve their communities and carry themselves well on campus or in the community, just like all other interests. My best friend didn’t tell anyone she was a legacy and the chapter was surprised when her mother showed up at initiation to pin her. Either way she was Delta material and that’ll always shine through! Membership is a privilege extended to each Soror on their merits.

If a woman has had a certain NPHC group on her mind for years and she's done the required things but still doesn't get in, what happens to her? Is she shunned by other sororities because she showed her preference for one? Will she always have to be independent?

[PersistentDST]

Originally Posted by carnation

If a woman has had a certain NPHC group on her mind for years and she's done the required things but still doesn't get in, what happens to her? Is she shunned by other sororities because she showed her preference for one? Will she always have to be independent?

I can speak to that because I was denied before I made it. If you truly love that organization, you will try again when the opportunity presents itself. Many ladies don’t get in the first time they apply. I didn’t just want to be Greek, I wanted to be a member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Incorporated.

Ladies can choose to pursue other organizations as they like. I know plenty of ladies who had joined other sororities after being denied from one. It’s not a good look, but it’s their choice. They may be a topic of conversation, some Sorors don’t take kindly to that.

[lake]

Originally Posted by carnation

I think it's easier for legacies to pledge their moms' sororities in the NPHC. Today while out walking, I saw our Delta neighbor and I told her about all this and asked her what she would have done if she had pursued Delta (her mom's group too) for years and never been accepted. She looked confused and said that that never would've happened.

Several years ago, didn't some women sue AKA because they weren't selected for membership, or am I imagining it? It was something about growing up as legacies and expecting to be automatically chosen. I thought I read it here on GC, but maybe not.

Anyway, carry on! 😀

[Sen's Revenge]

Originally Posted by lake

Several years ago, didn't some women sue AKA because they weren't selected for membership, or am I imagining it? It was something about growing up as legacies and expecting to be automatically chosen. I thought I read it here on GC, but maybe not.

Anyway, carry on! 😀

Yup. And they lost.

https://diverseeducation.com/article/66460/

tl;dr: In the event of a school limiting the number of people who can be taken at one time, the sorority had an internal policy of ranking legacies. These two women (and several more) were not selected because their upperclass standing was held against them. Their mothers threw tantrums and sued.