advice for appealing probation / termination decision

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by sweetheart272

at this point, i was recommended for termination by the chapter's disciplinary committee, there was a chapter wide vote on whether i should be terminated or probation (i don't know what the results of the vote were), this information was sent to nationals, who sent a letter to me saying that i'm on probation until a final decision is made. before that decision is made, i have the chance to write my letter and meet with them to present my side. so, technically, they haven't terminated me yet… although disciplinary procedures are well on their way.

i know it differs for each organization, but i've thoroughly read my bylaws over and over and based off what i've seen i don't know if there is a policy on this or if it's ever been addressed or considered.

Based on what you know, are you saying you think at this point I'd have the option to voluntarily resign, even though the disciplinary action has already begun? furthermore, wouldn't my chances of being reinstated later be very very slim if they knew i resigned with termination pending?

what you're saying makes sense though, about how they wouldn't want to go back once they've made the termination decision, but i'm pretty sure the chapter's bylaws view later reinstatement as a possibility for both those who resigned and those who are terminated.

would you suggest maybe i include in my correspondence with them proposition of resigning with agreed reinstatement or something? like i'd agree to resign for 3 years or something as long as i was "guaranteed" reinstatement (unless i did anything wrong in that period)?

No. No. No. You don't get to tell your organization what to do.

And you can voluntarily resign at any point in the process.

Look - you can't dictate to anyone. You are on such thin ice that I can hear it cracking.

Originally Posted by sweetheart272

thanks! unfortunately, the organization only recently converted to a system where meeting minutes are electronic, and until very recently (like within the last month or two) i never saw or was allowed to see any of my meeting minutes, even upon request. i don't know if this was due to the organization's policy that has since been changed, or if it was due to the previous leaders not following the rules. so, unfortunately, i don't have this resource which also makes things a lot more complicated… and makes it more complicated for me to present my side in a way that isn't complicated and convoluted!


i'm really taking into consideration what you're saying about how pointing out bad leadership is usually ineffective, but i would think that nationals would want to know that because having good, strong chapters is more important than the discipline of any one member.

like i said, they've been on probation several times before, so obviously nationals themselves had questioned the leadership, and even though most recently they're in good standing… i know for a fact and have proof of (such as social media screenshots, emails, pictures, etc.) the fact that the leaders have continued to put on and endorse sorority-linked alcohol events, even though that was the most recent reason why they were on probation.

i guess this is the most important decision i'm trying to make (and why i'm seeking input): do i focus my presentation on myself and my positive qualities, rather than questioning the credibility and integrity of the processes that got me there, and excluding solid evidence that would probably be of major concern to nationals, because including those things may make it seem like i'm a finger-pointer, always making excuses… or should i use this opportunity (which will likely be the only chance i get) to explain to nationals the truth of what is going on in the chapter… because again, a whole chapter's behavior is more of a concern to the sorority on a national level than one individual's may be.

It does not appear that you are listening. You're still doing a lot of "yes but" and blaming and casting shade on them. Your pattern of behavior is what got you to this point, regardless of anything else.

Originally Posted by sweetheart272

thanks for your insight. it is confusing trying to understand the process, because i tend to assume it's like the american legal system when i don't know (since i know a lot more about those laws)

but nevertheless, i feel that it's still appropriate here to consider the most recent incident separately. is it really a pattern of behavior if for years i had good behavior with no infractions? additionally, even though sheer number of infractions matter, is it pertinent that this most recent event was unrelated to the initial infractions?

i won't use my real information/alleged infractions, but a made-up example to demonstrate my point.


if suzy wuzy got put on probation 1 year ago because of infractions related to poor social behavior (i.e. dancing on tables at bars, throwing up because of drinking too much alcohol, explicit PDA, etc.) but then she was on probation for a year and was let off because she was evaluated to have good behavior, then a few months later, disciplinary actions were taken because she was accused of hazing a pledge because she made the pledge drive her to class every day or something)

is it still considered a pattern of concerning behavior, even though she learned from her past mistakes and didn't do those things again?

No she did entirely new things which were still under the umbrella of "conduct unbecoming". I ask you to put yourself in someone else's shoes and read everything you've written. Now, what do YOU think?

ETA: either you're a troll, or you're just unbelievably obtuse and can't accept responsibility for your own actions.

[sweetheart272]

Originally Posted by AZTheta

No. No. No. You don't get to tell your organization what to do.

And you can voluntarily resign at any point in the process.

Look - you can't dictate to anyone. You are on such thin ice that I can hear it cracking.




It does not appear that you are listening. You're still doing a lot of "yes but" and blaming and casting shade on them. Your pattern of behavior is what got you to this point, regardless of anything else.



No she did entirely new things which were still under the umbrella of "conduct unbecoming". I ask you to put yourself in someone else's shoes and read everything you've written. Now, what do YOU think?

ETA: either you're a troll, or you're just unbelievably obtuse and can't accept responsibility for your own actions.

wow. i gotta say your post hit me like a pound of bricks, definitely hurtful being called obtuse. nevertheless, i am really happy for your posts, as well as others.


i'm not a very skilled communicator. everything i write or say tends to be really wordy and go off on many tangents. i also feel i must have a very different process of mental reasoning and understanding than other people, because i often misunderstand others and others often misunderstand me and my intentions.

you're a very insightful individual… from just reading a few posts of mine, it seems like you were able to understand some of my issues very well. i literally just had a discussion earlier this week with a counselor and the same terminology of my "yes, but.." reasoning and communication was used.

obviously this is indicative of one of probably many flaws i have. i understand why that may make it seem like i am an unsuitable candidate for sorority membership. however, i think that despite my flaws i am able to contribute to the sorority in more ways than i would threaten or be detrimental to it. perhaps my thinking is wrong, because obviously I'm biased since its about me. i don't know. perhaps it is true that i am not worthy of membership in a sorority.

i hope that's not the case, because as i said i do feel really strongly that i deserve to be able to continue to be involved. i know i could do a lot of good things and be very hard working and devoted. i also know there's several sisters who have learned about the situation and definitely feel that i was mistreated and that there are certain huge issues with our chapter.


well, like pretty much everything i say… this post kinda jumped all over the place. but as a concluding point i guess id like to say that i really appreciate the feedback that's been posted so far. i may be flawed, but one positive trait i have that many don't is an extreme desire and drive for self-improvement and trying to learn and change based off of constructive criticism of others.


therefore, if you have any other suggestions or comments you'd like to share, i would appreciate it. i value what you all have to say!

[AZTheta]

Originally Posted by sweetheart272

wow. i gotta say your post hit me like a pound of bricks, definitely hurtful being called obtuse. nevertheless, i am really happy for your posts, as well as others.


i'm not a very skilled communicator. everything i write or say tends to be really wordy and go off on many tangents. i also feel i must have a very different process of mental reasoning and understanding than other people, because i often misunderstand others and others often misunderstand me and my intentions.

you're a very insightful individual… from just reading a few posts of mine, it seems like you were able to understand some of my issues very well. i literally just had a discussion earlier this week with a counselor and the same terminology of my "yes, but.." reasoning and communication was used.

obviously this is indicative of one of probably many flaws i have. i understand why that may make it seem like i am an unsuitable candidate for sorority membership. however, i think that despite my flaws i am able to contribute to the sorority in more ways than i would threaten or be detrimental to it. perhaps my thinking is wrong, because obviously I'm biased since its about me. i don't know. perhaps it is true that i am not worthy of membership in a sorority.

i hope that's not the case, because as i said i do feel really strongly that i deserve to be able to continue to be involved. i know i could do a lot of good things and be very hard working and devoted. i also know there's several sisters who have learned about the situation and definitely feel that i was mistreated and that there are certain huge issues with our chapter.


well, like pretty much everything i say… this post kinda jumped all over the place. but as a concluding point i guess id like to say that i really appreciate the feedback that's been posted so far. i may be flawed, but one positive trait i have that many don't is an extreme desire and drive for self-improvement and trying to learn and change based off of constructive criticism of others.


therefore, if you have any other suggestions or comments you'd like to share, i would appreciate it. i value what you all have to say!

I'm having a sleepless night and I just can't give you any more. Maybe some other GCers will wake up and have something to say to you. Your extrapolating is too exhausting for me. I'm not saying you're Breaking Bad: the sequel. I'm saying that further conversation with you on my part isn't prudent or beneficial. Obtuse in the sense of slow to understand; be glad I didn't use recalcitrant, fractious, or annoying.

[33girl]

Wow. It seems as though you and this chapter were a bad fit from the get-go (being extremely euphemistic here).

If you believe that the networking and volunteer opportunities your org provides are that incredibly awesome, go for it and plead your case to national, but also realize that people talk and it's not a clean slate.

It goes without saying that retaining your membership status will not necessarily result in what we term "sisterhood. "