Ugliest/Most Horrible Paraphenalia you've ever seen?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

I think the Phi Mu shirt is (to say the least) unfortunate, and blackface is NOT OK.

However DeltaBetaBaby found Mevara's other examples problematic. So, I want to ask where is the line with acceptability with pop culture references in these kind of things (per Mevara's examples with the "Notorious KKG" and the "99 Problems" shirts)? Those shirts read to me that they are fans of the music.

(In interest of full disclosure, I'm really going to be in trouble if white people aren't allowed to like music performed by black musicians.)

I think there's nothing racially and ethnically mocking and therefore offensive about the shirts that Mevara posted. Those are references to music and hip hop culture. Music and hip hop culture are one aspect of simply one component of a general African American culture just as music is one aspect of one component of all racial and ethnic group cultures including white Americans and white diaspora/Euro-diaspora.

The use of "homeboy," an image of Jay-Z and 99 problems, and a Notorious B.I.G. reference are not comparable to what is PERCEIVED to be a blackfaced or intentionally darkened Phi Mu mascot.

I think the shirts that Mevara posted are corny and tacky but not because they are offensive. That's for those sororities to deal with. LOL. And if the Minerva one is in reference to Delta, that is not something that Sorors who have a brain will be caught wearing--and a licensed vendor most likely would not be caught selling it.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I think there's nothing racially and ethnically mocking and therefore offensive about the shirts that Mevara posted. Those are references to music and hip hop culture. Music and hip hop culture are one aspect of simply one component of a general African American culture just as music is one aspect of one component of all racial and ethnic group cultures including white Americans and white diaspora/Euro-diaspora.

The use of "homeboy," an image of Jay-Z and 99 problems, and a Notorious B.I.G. reference are not comparable to what is PERCEIVED to be a blackfaced or intentionally darkened Phi Mu mascot.

I think the shirts that Mevara posted are corny and tacky but not because they are offensive. That's for those sororities to deal with. LOL. And if the Minerva one is in reference to Delta, that is not something that Sorors who have a brain will be caught wearing--and a licensed vendor most likely would not be caught selling it.

I personally still find them distasteful, but as I said upthread, I'm having a hard time articulating it.

They are using hip hop culture to promote organizations that are, historically, comprised of the white and privileged. I think there is a distinct difference between, for example, a Wizard of Oz-themed bid day shirt and a Notorious B.I.G.-themed bid day shirt. I also think there is a difference between, say, the Society of Women Engineers using a "99 Problems" slogan and an NPC group using the same slogan.

It's specifically the friction between the exclusivity of NPC groups and the origins of hip hop culture that rubs me the wrong way. It's sorta like when a conservative political candidate runs some music in their ad by a liberal artist, and the artist has to be like "hey, stop that!".

Now, I don't think any are as bad as Sir Fidel in blackface, but I don't think they are clever, and wouldn't wear one myself.

[MaryPoppins]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

It's specifically the friction between the exclusivity of NPC groups and the origins of hip hop culture that rubs me the wrong way. It's sorta like when a conservative political candidate runs some music in their ad by a liberal artist, and the artist has to be like "hey, stop that!".

The message forms in the mind of the one who perceives it (example DeltaBetaBaby and others.) And doesn't mean that it's the message that the sender intended to transmit. Perception IS reality. [Communications/Marketing 101 Anywhere/Everywhere]

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

They are using hip hop culture to promote organizations that are, historically, comprised of the white and privileged. I think there is a distinct difference between, for example, a Wizard of Oz-themed bid day shirt and a Notorious B.I.G.-themed bid day shirt. I also think there is a difference between, say, the Society of Women Engineers using a "99 Problems" slogan and an NPC group using the same slogan.

It's specifically the friction between the exclusivity of NPC groups and the origins of hip hop culture that rubs me the wrong way. It's sorta like when a conservative political candidate runs some music in their ad by a liberal artist, and the artist has to be like "hey, stop that!".

Yes. See: Ronald Reagan using "Born in the USA" as a campaign song (with no clue as to what the lyrics are about).

I just read the lyrics to 99 Problems, and the song is apparently delineating all the problems the lyricist has...however, girl problems are not one of them. What does that have to do with a sorority? (Or the SWE, for that matter)

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Yes. See: Ronald Reagan using "Born in the USA" as a campaign song (with no clue as to what the lyrics are about).

I just read the lyrics to 99 Problems, and the song is apparently delineating all the problems the lyricist has...however, girl problems are not one of them. What does that have to do with a sorority? (Or the SWE, for that matter)

Actually, on further thought, I revoke my statement that it would be okay for the SWE to use it, but for different reasons, namely that it is not very egalitarian to refer to a woman as a "bitch".

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

IThey are using hip hop culture to promote organizations that are, historically, comprised of the white and privileged. I think there is a distinct difference between, for example, a Wizard of Oz-themed bid day shirt and a Notorious B.I.G.-themed bid day shirt. I also think there is a difference between, say, the Society of Women Engineers using a "99 Problems" slogan and an NPC group using the same slogan.

It's specifically the friction between the exclusivity of NPC groups and the origins of hip hop culture that rubs me the wrong way. It's sorta like when a conservative political candidate runs some music in their ad by a liberal artist, and the artist has to be like "hey, stop that!".

Are you implying that "Wizard of Oz" is a symbol of whiteness whereas "Notorious BIG" and "99 Problems" are symbols of Blackness? Should NPC orgs, and white people in general, therefore avoid these references?

I'm not buying that because it creates a nonsense, surface-level response to inequality which pretends that this is all about people feeling offended by ANY type of reference. "Just stay away from it altogether and there will be no problems." I call nonsense on that. There are clear images of white people mocking non-white cultures, including racial slurs, blackface, and "dressing Black for a day." Every reference to something that is one aspect of one component of nonwhiteness is not offensive regardless of intent and outcome.

Originally Posted by Mevara

Just a note with the shirts I posted none of them are approved by the respective org. They are just shirts by a (popular) third party vendor.

Did you know that the Minerva one was in reference to an NPHC sorority? I am still searching for the racial and ethnic mockery there beyond the nonlicensed (probably white) third party vendor's motives.

Originally Posted by 33girl

I just read the lyrics to 99 Problems, and the song is apparently delineating all the problems the lyricist has...however, girl problems are not one of them. What does that have to do with a sorority? (Or the SWE, for that matter)

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Actually, on further thought, I revoke my statement that it would be okay for the SWE to use it, but for different reasons, namely that it is not very egalitarian to refer to a woman as a "bitch".

So, now the issue is gender inequality and sorority life? *brain fart* I thought the issue was supposed to be mimicking and mocking Black folkseseseses. LOL.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Sorry for the double-post, but I just got an e-mail from HQ saying it will be taken down ASAP. Goodbye, blackface Sir Fidel.

We all have a voice!

[Mevara]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Did you know that the Minerva one was in reference to an NPHC sorority? I am still searching for the racial and ethnic mockery there beyond the nonlicensed (probably white) third party vendor's motives.

No I did not know that Minerva was a reference to an NPHC sorority as it is also a reference for Kappa. And I only used that one because DeltaBetaBabay thought that the use of the word "homeboy" was offensive and I was wondering if using "homegirl" would also be offensive.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Mevara

No I did not know that Minerva was a reference to an NPHC sorority as it is also a reference for Kappa.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

On the seller's website, it is marketed as a "Kappa Kappa Gamma Minerva HoodieBuddie." I can see how the color could suggest Delta rather than Kappa, though.

There are some ugly shirts on that site.

*breathes a sigh of relief*

Thank you, Black baby Jesus.

Ignore my Delta and Minerva rant.

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

"It truly amazes me when people feel the need to publically critique organizations to which they do not belong."

"If you can't say something nice..."

Some of you are being so "small-minded."

Shut up.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Should NPC orgs, and white people in general, therefore avoid these references?

Nope, I just said that it doesn't sit well with me, and I wouldn't wear such a shirt if one were made for my group. Others are free to do whatever they want, and to feel however they want about the issue.

To offer another analogy, it feels to me a little like having a bachelorette party in a gay bar. There are still parts of the country where black women are largely unwelcome in NPC groups.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Nope, I just said that it doesn't sit well with me, and I wouldn't wear such a shirt if one were made for my group. Others are free to do whatever they want, and to feel however they want about the issue.

To offer another analogy, it feels to me a little like having a bachelorette party in a gay bar. There are still parts of the country where black women are largely unwelcome in NPC groups.

Thanks for the explanation. I always understood your point, I am just wondering where the line is drawn.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

*Retiring from hiatus for two seconds*

I didn't see the Sir Fidel shirt as a an adoption of a minority culture by elitist white groups. All of black culture is not ruined by a single hip hop reference on a Phi Mu t-shirt. As a "race" we have far bigger concerns.

I see it as an adoption of popular culture just as they would use "Wizard of Oz" theme or "Sex and the City" or a "How I Met Your Mother" theme. It's just what's hot in the streets right now to say "____ is my home boy" or whatever the kids are liking right now. The so called "hip hop" culture is what many young people are into and PNMs and others see these references and think it's "super cute" as we'd say down here.

It's not like they'd one day print a shirt saying "This N**** right here is my home girl" or something. At least not anyone with common sense.

Would I buy that shirt? No, but that's because it's ugly and we have way cuter things with more pink on it, not because I find it racist.

[PiAlphaGammaFM]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

*Retiring from hiatus for two seconds*

I didn't see the Sir Fidel shirt as a an adoption of a minority culture by elitist white groups. All of black culture is not ruined by a single hip hop reference on a Phi Mu t-shirt. As a "race" we have far bigger concerns.

I see it as an adoption of popular culture just as they would use "Wizard of Oz" theme or "Sex and the City" or a "How I Met Your Mother" theme. It's just what's hot in the streets right now to say "____ is my home boy" or whatever the kids are liking right now. The so called "hip hop" culture is what many young people are into and PNMs and others see these references and think it's "super cute" as we'd say down here.

It's not like they'd one day print a shirt saying "This N**** right here is my home girl" or something. At least not anyone with common sense.

Would I buy that shirt? No, but that's because it's ugly and we have way cuter things with more pink on it, not because I find it racist.

This. All of this. much more eloquent then i was being.