Asians rushing for UPC sorority?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Chapters of my fraternity might do the same regarding orientation or race, too. Luckily, exposure seems to be having a positive affect. We have a white member of our administration who is very well known and active. I think his presence allows chapters who might be on the cusp of racial discrimination to see that there's a better way.

In terms of orientation, that's another can of worms, but things seem to be getting better on that front also.

Things are slowly changing in the NPC world, too. Societal pressure not to allow in minorities at the local level lessons with each generation. We can preach it, but you really have no ultimate contol over membership selection.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Societal pressure not to allow in minorities at the local level lessons with each generation. We can preach it, but you really have no ultimate contol over membership selection.

Obviously. I think the point, though, is that when someone asks a question like the OP, we owe it to our organizations and Greek life as a whole to do more than state the (very true) fact that membership selection is confidential. We all know that prejudice still lingers, and we all know that anyone can find pretextual reasons for not bidding someone. But if our orgs have non-discrimination policies (and don't they all now?), then let's at least stand up for our orgs and say so.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Obviously. I think the point, though, is that when someone asks a question like the OP, we owe it to our organizations and Greek life as a whole to do more than state the (very true) fact that membership selection is confidential. We all know that prejudice still lingers, and we all know that anyone can find pretextual reasons for not bidding someone. But if our orgs have non-discrimination policies (and don't they all now?), then let's at least stand up for our orgs and say so.

I agree, but I see where people are coming from when they say that they don't know what a group might do during MS. These PNMs don't necessarily know that many things go into choosing a member and that even sisters in the same org that are not present at MS aren't privy to that info. I guess that makes people hesitant to say everything is hunky dory and let these girls go into recruitment thinking it won't be an issue when it may.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

These PNMs don't necessarily know that many things go into choosing a member and that even sisters in the same org that are not present at MS aren't privy to that info. I guess that makes people hesitant to say everything is hunky dory and let these girls go into recruitment thinking it won't be an issue when it may.

Oh, I agree completely. That's why I worded my suggested response the way I did:

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I don't think it's that difficult or inappropriate to say "XYZ prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, religion, etc., and we expect all of our members and chapters to live up to that. That said, we cannot tell you your chances at any particular school or with any particular chapter. Membership selection is confidential, membership decisions can be based on a wide variety of factors, and we are not privy to the considerations of any specific chapter, nor could we say if we were."

The flip side is that if we simply answer a question like the OP asked with "membership selection is confidential so we can't tell you," it can give the impression that we think discrimination based on something like race is okay -- no one will know anyway because we don't talk about it. No, we certainly can't tell someone who asks a question about potential discrimination whether it will or won't happen. But we can say that our organizations have taken a position on discrimination rather than risking the impression that they haven't.

All that said, in this case the OP does seem to acknowledge the policies and seems to be asking about the on-the-ground realities.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Oh, I agree completely. That's why I worded my suggested response the way I did:
The flip side is that if we simply answer a question like the OP asked with "membership selection is confidential so we can't tell you," it can give the impression that we think discrimination based on something like race is okay -- no one will know anyway because we don't talk about it. No, we certainly can't tell someone who asks a question about potential discrimination whether it will or won't happen. But we can say that our organizations have taken a position on discrimination rather than risking the impression that they haven't.

All that said, in this case the OP does seem to acknowledge the policies and seems to be asking about the on-the-ground realities.

I must have missed that post! We are in total accord, MC.

[Drolefille]

Cosigning what Sen, MC and AOII Angel has said. I do think sometimes it's just a habit of people who are used to responding that way towards every query:

Will I get a bid if my GPA is X?
Will I get a bid if I'm from the North/South/Midwest/West Coast?
Will I get a bid if my great aunt died and left me a parrot as a pet?

MC or Sen's responses are the ideal though.

[angels&angles]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Will I get a bid if my great aunt died and left me a parrot as a pet?

My org only allows parrot legacies if they are mother, grandmother or sister, so your parrot would not a be a legacy.

I can neither confirm nor deny any potential parrot-based discrimination. (But they're gross and you'll never get in if you have one. Or are one).

[DubaiSis]

I am perfectly willing to go on record saying Alpha Xi Delta does not discriminate based on race or religion. The only time I ever experienced the issue of race at all is when we DID pledge a black girl, and I don't recall it being discussed in any way shape or form. And same with the Asians and others (I can think of Chinese, Vietnamese and Mexican Americans right off the top of my head...) who were members of my chapter at the same time as me, 25 years ago. I would be willing to bet that the percentage of girls of color who don't get bids at all is right in line with the percentage of white girls who don't. Even at the supercompetitive old-south schools. That of course isn't to say that it doesn't happen EVER, but not enough to get your undies in a bunch.

And I will also go on record saying we DO discriminate against parrots. Just sayin.

[FSUZeta]

OP, has your friend looked at each UPC chapter's website? I saw minority members in photos on several sites.

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Will I get a bid if my great aunt died and left me a parrot as a pet?

Originally Posted by angels&angles

My org only allows parrot legacies if they are mother, grandmother or sister, so your parrot would not a be a legacy.

I can neither confirm nor deny any potential parrot-based discrimination. (But they're gross and you'll never get in if you have one. Or are one).

*hijack**end hijack*

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

OP, has your friend looked at each UPC chapter's website? I saw minority members in photos on several sites.

Really? I looked at most of them, and I saw one non-white member, in several photos. If the OP's friend looked at the websites, then that may have been enough to make her worry.

[longhornlove]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Really? I looked at most of them, and I saw one non-white member, in several photos. If the OP's friend looked at the websites, then that may have been enough to make her worry.

I think that's what really started to worry her. I just feel awful cause there's nothing I can do. I appreciate all the ladies replying to this threat, but I'm still a little uncertain on what's trying to be said. I'm sorry if I insult anyone and I know that potential member selection is confidential, but like MysticCat said, I was actually asking about what goes on in reality? Does being a minority give you a disadvantage? She doesn't have the obvious All American Girl beauty, but she's beautiful in her own way. I'm worried they won't give her a chance because of that

[FSUZeta]

i saw two that had asian members & several that had latina members. i think one had an asian member serving as an officer. i'll go back and check again.

[FSUZeta]

go back and look again. i just did, and i stand by my first statement, that six sororities at the university of texas have asian and/or latina members pictured on their websites. look thru officer listings, watch all the slide shows, look thru all the photos. that doesn't mean that the other sororities don't have minority members-just that they are not pictured on the websites.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by longhornlove

I think that's what really started to worry her. I just feel awful cause there's nothing I can do. I appreciate all the ladies replying to this threat, but I'm still a little uncertain on what's trying to be said. I'm sorry if I insult anyone and I know that potential member selection is confidential, but like MysticCat said, I was actually asking about what goes on in reality? Does being a minority give you a disadvantage? She doesn't have the obvious All American Girl beauty, but she's beautiful in her own way. I'm worried they won't give her a chance because of that

It varies by chapter because it varies by the people who make the decisions. There are people in ALL of our organizations who want to keep the demographics the way they are. A couple of sprinkles will be seen here and there but the overall demographics will intentionally not change.

Whenever you hear people say "I saw 2 in a photo...I swear I did...," you need to RUN! LOL. Being "spotted" is not only hilarious, it also means nothing. I completely understand the responses in this thread. However, spotting people in photos or knowing chapters where there are a few minorities (note: I get seen all of the time as one of the few minorities in my professional organizations---that makes them feel diverse, yet my experiences in at least one of these organizations has been WOMP WOMP at best) always makes me chuckle.

We already know that none of our organizations officially discriminate on the basis of race and ethnicity. As others have said in this thread, that doesn't erase what happens at some chapters. More importantly, there simply aren't a whole lot of non-whites PNMs in the first place so of course there won't be a whole lot of non-white members. The same goes for NPHC--there aren't a whole lot of nonBlack/nonAfrican Diaspora aspirants so it is no shock that whites and those not of the African Diaspora will only be "spotted" in a few photos here and there.

That isn't automatically discrimination. If people don't want to be members for WHATEVER reasons, they don't want to be members. But, since discrimination is also based on outcome and not intent, the lack thereof can have a discriminatory impact if there is a nonstop vibe that makes non-whites not want to join NPC; non-African Diaspora not want to join NPHC; etc etc etc etc.

At this point, this thread is silly with people spotting Asians in photos and stuff. I recommend "your friend" either try or not try. Enough already.