Nun excommunicated for allowing abortion to save the life of a mother

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

*blinks* Holy disappearing post, Batman.

What in the samhell?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

From my understanding of it, the Church probably wouldn't even have not announced the excommunication if she wasn't in a position of leadership. The fact that she is a religious sister might also have been taken into account when deciding to announce it.

The impression I get is that locally there was some sort of fuss about it and that the bishop there is not just obviously pro-life but like 'don't take communion if you voted for a pro-choice politician' pro-life. (which btw is bullshit.) So combine those two and i suspect you would have gotten the fuss whether or not she was a sister but it makes the whole thing all the more dramatic. It may have been that she didn't go to confession immediately after this situation either... though not sure that even the bishop would know that one way or the other.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

What in the samhell?

Dunno, UGAalum posted and it went *poof* by the time I replied.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

The impression I get is that locally there was some sort of fuss about it and that the bishop there is not just obviously pro-life but like 'don't take communion if you voted for a pro-choice politician' pro-life. (which btw is bullshit.) So combine those two and i suspect you would have gotten the fuss whether or not she was a sister but it makes the whole thing all the more dramatic. It may have been that she didn't go to confession immediately after this situation either... though not sure that even the bishop would know that one way or the other.

Ugh politics in the Church. The whole point of an announcement is supposed to be more of a heads up to not follow the lead of somebody who is not in communion with the Church, not to hold them up as an example.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Dunno, UGAalum posted and it went *poof* by the time I replied.

I saw her long post. I didn't think to QFP. LOL.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Oh, I wouldn't dare, but there is no way to justify allowing a mother of four to die because the nonviable fetus in her uterus that is killing her can't be removed because it's a mortal sin.

I really don't care what the church's teachings on the matter are in reality, I just care that they should not be able to withhold a life saving procedure from a woman who is in their care when she has no choice whether or not she can be in their care. It is all well and good for them to deny care to women when there is another option for them across town, but when that woman is held hostage in their facility by her medical condition, the church is dealing her a death sentence by refusing to allow her medical team and family to treat her how they see fit.

Was the fetus nonviable for any other reason in this case, other than it would die because it killed the mother? My understanding of the original case was that there wasn't anything wrong with fetus or pregnancy. Did I miss something?

I mention this for reasons other than my reading skills, but because that's why the OP case can't really be compared to the ectopic pregnancy stuff in terms of double effect.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Was the fetus nonviable for any other reason in this case, other than it would die because it killed the mother? My understanding of the original case was that there wasn't anything wrong with fetus or pregnancy. Did I miss something?

I mention this for reasons other than my reading skills, but because that's why the OP case can't really be compared to the ectopic pregnancy stuff in terms of double effect.

QFP.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Dunno, UGAalum posted and it went *poof* by the time I replied.

Sorry. I posted before I read the whole thread and I basically just duplicated something about excommunication that you said on the first page. It didn't occur to me that my post was up long enough for anyone to have read it.

Sorry.

As far as "if you want it to be", you're probably right in terms of being true to your conscience and invalid confession. But I don't feel as much heartache about the idea of wanting to be in full communion with the church if you aren't down with its teaching in actuality. There's got to be some room for Catholics to sort of look at the church as horribly flawed human political institution while still loving the sacraments, but if you don't really accept what the church teaches about medical procedures and pregnancy, especially if you are a director of care in a Catholic medical facility, how horrible should excommunication from the church really be? How in communion were you before the decree?

I'm not judging the nun particularly, but I feel like her relationship to the church is pretty much in her hands, rather than that she was victimized or punished unfairly.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Was the fetus nonviable for any other reason in this case, other than it would die because it killed the mother? My understanding of the original case was that there wasn't anything wrong with fetus or pregnancy. Did I miss something?

Well, the mother was only 11 weeks along - outside of those of us who are pro-abortion, is that generally considered non-viable?

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by agzg

Well, the mother was only 11 weeks along - outside of those of us who are pro-abortion, is that generally considered non-viable?

Not a doctor but I doubt it. Isn't pregnancy usually about 40 weeks give or take?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I saw her long post. I didn't think to QFP. LOL.

There was no earlier long post in this thread by me.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by agzg

Well, the mother was only 11 weeks along - outside of those of us who are pro-abortion, is that generally considered non-viable?

Ohhh, I read it as a comment about the pregnancy not being able to progress normally, rather than nonviable outside the womb right then.

Maybe my post really is about my reading skills.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

The one that Drolefile responded to.

I think what she had quoted was the whole post.

[DrPhil]

This 16 page thread has covered a lot (literally---we have gone through a ton of topics). Perhaps someone has already answered any questions you may have, as with the first post you created.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I think what she had quoted was the whole post.

Ok, the long post was in that other thread then. Cool.