Arizona governor signs immigration bill

[Kevlar281]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No.

Yes

Originally Posted by DrPhil

75-100 miles from the border is "throughout the state?" Explain that to me. Aren't there more miles in the state than that?

Their reach goes past that and does. Just because they choose to an operate in an area with highest probability of success doesn't diminish their power throughout the states. Feel free to look up U.S. Immigration and Customs enforcement.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Ummm...what are you talking about?

I'm saying that proximity to the border doesn't make one ok and the other a civil rights violation.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

Feel free to look up U.S. Immigration and Customs enforcement.

No, be clearer and more concise in what you are trying to convey. You and Wikipedia said approximately 75 miles from the border for the border patrol. If border patrol's reach extends beyond that, YOU need to clearly state that and specify that you are still only talking about border patrol.

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I'm saying that proximity to the border doesn't make one ok and the other a civil rights violation.

We aren't talking about the same thing.

[Kevlar281]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

No, be clearer and more concise in what you are trying to convey. You and Wikipedia said approximately 75 miles from the border for the border patrol. If border patrol's reach extends beyond that, YOU need to clearly state that and specify that you are still only talking about border patrol.

Border Patrols reach extends beyond 75 miles. That is an impartial list of permanent border check points and I've already stated Border Patrol sets up mobile/random check points beyond the permanent checkpoints.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

We aren't talking about the same thing.

Well to be fair I quoted AOII Angel and you responded.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

Border Patrols reach extends beyond 75 miles. That is an impartial list of permanent border check points and I've already stated Border Patrol sets up mobile/random check points beyond the permanent checkpoints.

You might be confused and that's okay.

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

Well to be fair I quoted AOII Angel and you responded.

That's what happens on message boards. You seem to have shifted the point because you were also thinking about what Angel was saying.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

Their reach goes past that and does. Just because they choose to an operate in an area with highest probability of success doesn't diminish their power throughout the states. Feel free to look up U.S. Immigration and Customs enforcement.

ICE =/= CBP

They're both under DHS but try to call a Border Patrol agent an ICE agent or, even worse, and ICE agent a Border Patrol agent and watch smoke come out of their ears.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by agzg

ICE =/= CBP

They're both under DHS but try to call a Border Patrol agent an ICE agent or, even worse, and ICE agent a Border Patrol agent and watch smoke come out of their ears.

Okay, thanks.

Now, if there's a such thing as ICE AND CBP, what the hell do we need Jane Cop for to do this? If someone gets arrested for non-immigration offenses and they find the person is an illegal immigrant (as someone stated earlier) that's fine. That includes people who are detected as illegal immigrants at the time of their arrest because they don't have I.D. and so forth. But...shouldn't that have been happening, anyway? Precincts and jurisdictions weren't ignoring this altogether so what was the point of this law beyond politics and making the voters happy?

[agzg]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Okay, thanks.

Now, if there's a such thing as ICE AND CBP, what the hell do we need Jane Cop for to do this? If someone gets arrested for non-immigration offenses and they find the person is an illegal immigrant (as someone stated earlier) that's fine. That includes people who are detected as illegal immigrants at the time of their arrest because they don't have I.D. and so forth. But...shouldn't that have been happening, anyway? Precincts and jurisdictions weren't ignoring this altogether so what was the point of this law beyond politics and making the voters happy?

There's also USCIS or INS. CBP::Local Police, USCIS::State Police, ICE::FBI, kinda. They work together but are not the same.

And no, we don't need police officers actively enforcing immigration laws beyond reporting illegal immigrants uncovered in the routine investigation of other crimes.

And yes, that should have been (and has been) happening.

And no, there is no other point beyond making the voters happy.

[Kevlar281]

Originally Posted by agzg

ICE =/= CBP

They're both under DHS but try to call a Border Patrol agent an ICE agent or, even worse, and ICE agent a Border Patrol agent and watch smoke come out of their ears.

I'd quantify CBP as State Police and ICE as the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Are they the same? No. Do they enforce the same laws? Yes. They both work for DHS which puts them in the same bowl of alphabet soup as far as I'm concerned.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Kevlar281

I'd quantify CBP as State Police and ICE as the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Are they the same? No. Do they enforce the same laws? Yes. They both work DHS which puts them in the same bowl of alphabet soup as far as I'm concerned.

No. CBP is the front line. They are not equivalent to State Police, but local police. But I've already answered that above.

It is not appropriate to equate CBP and ICE in the same breath. ICE has much broader responsibility and powers, and ICE may operate as far away from the borders as they like (they operate in all 50 states, including Hawai'i and Alaska). They often do NOT enforce the same laws, unless you qualify them ALL as "federal law."

CBP only operates in states that have borders. Which is many, but not all.

Edit: Try thinking of it this way: More often then not, CBP officials do not need security clearances. More often than not, ICE officials DO need security clearances. Of course that depends on job duties, so if anyone is thinking of applying for these positions, YMMV. Everyone goes through a thorough background check.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

Does anyone know specifically what is acceptable enough identification to be left alone?

[agzg]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

Does anyone know specifically what is acceptable enough identification to be left alone?

They may not leave you alone, but state-issued ID usually suffices to make them go away. When crossing borders it's always best to have a passport.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by agzg

No. CBP is the front line. They are not equivalent to State Police, but local police. But I've already answered that above.

It is not appropriate to equate CBP and ICE in the same breath. ICE has much broader responsibility and powers, and ICE may operate as far away from the borders as they like (they operate in all 50 states, including Hawai'i and Alaska). They often do NOT enforce the same laws, unless you qualify them ALL as "federal law."

CBP only operates in states that have borders. Which is many, but not all.

Edit: Try thinking of it this way: More often then not, CBP officials do not need security clearances. More often than not, ICE officials DO need security clearances. Of course that depends on job duties, so if anyone is thinking of applying for these positions, YMMV. Everyone goes through a thorough background check.

No, CBP is in every state that has an international border crossing, including airports that receive international flights.

BTW, they ALL need security clearances.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Where does border patrol operate? Do they patrol every street and do illegal immigrant check points throughout the state?

Not around here, they only operate within 75 miles of the border. After 9/11, there were checkpoints along two roads near my house. It tied up traffic beyond belief. The joke was, you knew it was up there because traffic was all backed up, so we would just turn into a subdivision and get to another major road to get around it. It was a hassle for a couple months, then it went away. I can't imagine they thought it would be effective when there were so many alternate routes around the checkpoints.

Originally Posted by epchick

It's mandatory now due to the new law....although I don't know how well it is enforced. It used to be that you only needed a passport when you head a certain amount of miles past a major city, but now you need one to cross.

Michigan has enhanced driver's licenses now that can be used as passports within North America, to come back over from Canada, mainly. I know a lot of people who travel back and forth frequently got the enhanced license so they don't have to carry their passport with them all the time. In particular, the boaters like them. It can handle water damage, a passport can't. I never
considered whether these are available in any state or just border states or what.

I can't imagine we'll ever have a huge problem with illegal Canadians coming here. They have it good up there!

[agzg]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

BTW, they ALL need security clearances.

Common misconception. CBP employees (especially those who patrol the spaces between points of entry) typically go through a Federal background investigation which can usually be done electronically - it's a more in-depth credit/criminal history check.

ICE and other federal employees that need any level of security clearances have to go through a 3-6 month process of polygraph tests, interviews of their families and friends, psychological testing, etc. Depending on the level, it gets pretty long and arduous. These last between 3 and 5 years and have to be renewed.

The clearance levels range from confidential (typically this is for jobs that deal with a lot of personal information, like financial data) to Top Secret/Secret Compartmentalized Information (usually reserved for national security issues but sometimes not).

CBP employees do not deal with the type of information that would require a security clearance to have. ICE employees do, especially because they've been tasked with aiding the FBI in the monitoring of foreign-born terrorist suspects (This is why I say that ICE and CBP do not really enforce the same laws).

To be 100% honest, many of the CBP agents that I know would probably not be able to get a security clearance beyond confidential for one reason or another. They'd have already been working with ICE if they had. CBP is not exactly the most desireable job in the federal government - it takes a certain kinda someone.

About the airports - that may be true, but CBP (especially the patrol) is less concerned with legitimate points of entry than they are with the spaces between. Generally, the spaces between are land-based. If you get stopped in an airport, it's a Customs and Border Protection agent. If you're getting stopped on land, away from a legitimate point of entry, it's Customs and Border patrol personnel (also part of CBP). Which is who we're talking about in this thread, mostly. My mistake for not clarifying.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by agzg

Common misconception. CBP employees (especially those who patrol the spaces between points of entry) typically go through a Federal background investigation which can usually be done electronically - it's a more in-depth credit/criminal history check.

CBP employees do not deal with the type of information that would require a security clearance to have. ICE employees do, especially because they've been tasked with aiding the FBI in the monitoring of foreign-born terrorist suspects (This is why I say that ICE and CBP do not really enforce the same laws).

About the airports - that may be true, but CBP (especially the patrol) is less concerned with legitimate points of entry than they are with the spaces between. Generally, the spaces between are land-based. If you get stopped in an airport, it's a Customs and Border Protection agent. If you're getting stopped on land, away from a legitimate point of entry, it's Customs and Border patrol personnel (also part of CBP). Which is who we're talking about in this thread, mostly. My mistake for not clarifying.

I'm going to have to still disagree on you in regards to the background investigation requirements. How did you come upon this "knowledge", are you an employee of CBP? The thing you aren't pointing out is that CBP is the parent org to several seperatly operating agencies, OFO and USBP being two of them. All of the agencies Have their own requirements and standards, so lumping everything into "CBP" doesn't work.

BTW- I've never heard a USBP Agent referred to as a Customs and Border Patrol Agent.