Who benefited from the No Child Left Behind?

[AGDee]

Are low graduation rates a school's fault? Or the parents' faults? Or society's fault? The kids I knew who dropped out of school did so because A) they were pregnant, B) they were too high to go to school or C) They were suspended from every school in the area due to their own behavior and were out of options

Do kids really not graduate because of poor teaching ability of teachers?

[epchick]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Are low graduation rates a school's fault? Or the parents' faults? Or society's fault? The kids I knew who dropped out of school did so because A) they were pregnant, B) they were too high to go to school or C) They were suspended from every school in the area due to their own behavior and were out of options

Do kids really not graduate because of poor teaching ability of teachers?

I think if you have to place the blame somewhere, I would think that low graduation rates are a community's fault. A community (whether it be the local city, the state, etc) should try and implement more programs to assist those who are on the verge of dropping out. I'm not saying that, they HAVE to do it, but it would be nice. You can blame it on the parents, but you'll get nowhere trying to get them on board w/ education. A lot of parents here see HS education as a waste of time, they rather their son go get a job and help provide for the family, and their daughters to help take care of the house. So the kids feel a lot of pressure to drop out (some want to stay in school, some are glad to drop out). It's one of those "i'm poor, and i'm gonna stay poor, so why waste my time getting a diploma" mentality. Then of course you have the girls who get pregnant and decide just to drop out because they don't want to deal with a kid and school. It doesn't matter that the school districts here have "School Age Parent Centers" where the mothers can get an education and have a daycare for their kid(s). Most of the time those parent centers are utilized while the girls are pregnant, and the girls will stay only if they have the type of parents that really care about the girl's education. By around 8th grade,though, a kid here knows if they are gonna finish school or not.

Kids don't drop out because of a poor teacher. But to NCLB it doesn't really matter. Graduation rate affects the AYP. My HS, for example, has met all the AYP standards for the different subjects, but not for graduation rates. So they got put on the 5 year plan. If the school doesn't bring up it's graduation rate in 5 years, then the school will get taken over by the government and restructured. It has NOTHING to do with the teachers ability, but if the school gets restructured, those HS teachers will most likely lose their job and be replaced by more "effective" teachers.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Are low graduation rates a school's fault? Or the parents' faults? Or society's fault?

Yes.

But any of those three can do something to fix the problem. There are some very enterprising and successful programs aimed at these troubled schools. I think very highly of the KIPP schools which have been able to duplicate their successful methods all around the nation. There are also quite a few highly successful charter and enterprise schools which are taking the same kids who would have failed in public schools and sending them to college.

Of course parents can take charge of their kids' education, but that's not always a viable option in, for example, single parent homes where mom thinks "burglar" is a fine vocation.

And "society"? I don't think blaming "society" should really be a viable option either. What exactly is "society"? A culture? A bad set of circumstances? It seems to me that out of the three, the kid herself has the most control over her circumstances with respect to their "society" or the impact that has upon them.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Yes.

But any of those three can do something to fix the problem. There are some very enterprising and successful programs aimed at these troubled schools. I think very highly of the KIPP schools which have been able to duplicate their successful methods all around the nation. There are also quite a few highly successful charter and enterprise schools which are taking the same kids who would have failed in public schools and sending them to college.

Of course parents can take charge of their kids' education, but that's not always a viable option in, for example, single parent homes where mom thinks "burglar" is a fine vocation.

And "society"? I don't think blaming "society" should really be a viable option either. What exactly is "society"? A culture? A bad set of circumstances? It seems to me that out of the three, the kid herself has the most control over her circumstances with respect to their "society" or the impact that has upon them.

If KIPP schools were available everywhere, that could make some sense, but they are only in 19 states.. hardly accessible to all kids. The Detroit Public Schools, while failing as a district, do have some incredible specialized schools such as a foreign language immersion school where kids are taught in two languages simultaneously. There are also some great charter schools in the area. The parents who make the effort to get their children into these schools also have to transport them every day because those schools don't have buses. The point is, the parents have to sign their kids up for these schools. The parents have to care enough about their child's education to make that effort to sign them up and get them there. Therefore, those kids have an advantage over some of the others from the start, don't they? A child is not allowed to enroll themselves into a school without parental permission. Maybe they should be?

You and I will always disagree about whether society should be held accountable or not. I think it's insane that there are neighborhoods that aren't safe to walk through. It shouldn't happen anywhere, ever. There should be enough jails, enough police enforcement, enough everything to get criminals off the street and keep our streets safe. It should be the top priority of any society to get dangerous people behind bars.

Yes, there are some rare kids who fight the odds and manage to better themselves despite everything going against them. I think, in most of those cases, somebody believed in them and lit a fire under them to believe in themselves. Some of them never connect with a person who will do that for them. Perhaps some teachers do perform in that role for some kids, but not teachers who have over 200 students a day, who have to spend most of their day managing violence rather than teaching.

I just see it as a much bigger problem than teachers who can't teach.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by gamma

It is mostly the parent's fault. The problem is most inner city kids do not have two parents. Kids in the suburbs are raised by their parents and kids in the city are raised by their 30 year old grandmothers.

Don't quote my posts when you spout your crap. It implies that I'm on the same page as you and I most certainly am not.