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  #1  
Old 12-01-2008, 05:11 PM
madmax madmax is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preciousjeni View Post
On another note, why do unions push to establish themselves in companies where the workers don't want them?

Why do non union scabs participate in union bashing of companies where the workers do want unions?

Last edited by madmax; 12-01-2008 at 05:24 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2008, 05:36 PM
preciousjeni preciousjeni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax View Post
Why do non union scabs participate in union bashing of companies where the workers do want unions?
Ah you wisely edited your post. I was going to say, I suppose it would be hard for me to be a scab as I've never personally been involved with a company that had unions... plus the fact that my mother has been part of the same union for oh I don't know...decades? So, my livelihood was essentially dependent on the work she (and they on her behalf) did.

Try better next time.
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2008, 05:55 PM
madmax madmax is offline
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Originally Posted by preciousjeni View Post
Ah you wisely edited your post. I was going to say, I suppose it would be hard for me to be a scab as I've never personally been involved with a company that had unions... plus the fact that my mother has been part of the same union for oh I don't know...decades? So, my livelihood was essentially dependent on the work she (and they on her behalf) did.

Try better next time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by preciousjeni View Post
Low skilled + overtime + union backing = the salary they make. I get that.

ETA: No one "deserves" any salary. We all have a market value and some of us have artificial values assigned to us whether it's through union backing, government assigned salary grades, etc.

Does that mean your mom is overpaid and unskilled?
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2008, 06:10 PM
preciousjeni preciousjeni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmax View Post
Does that mean your mom is overpaid and unskilled?
I see you missed the entire conversation. Let me get you up to speed. We're talking about UAW members working at the Big Three automakers. Hope that helps.
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2008, 05:11 PM
epchick epchick is offline
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Don't know if this was posted yet, but I just saw this:

Ford CEO will work for $1 a year if the gov't bails him out

I know the media skews things, but in this article you could see the differences between the 3 CEOs. Although I don't know if his approach is the best---like how about he gets rid of some of his money instead of taking it out on all the Ford employees around the country--but at least he has a plan. It doesn't seem like GM & Chrysler have one.

I'm still holding out that I can get my Ford Edge for dirt cheap, but I think i'll be waiting a long time for that! lol.
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  #6  
Old 12-02-2008, 09:29 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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They all have plans. They are all driving hybrids to Washington this time. They have each agreed to being paid $1 a year. The higher ups with the UAW met today to discuss concessions including getting rid of the job bank (where essentially guys get laid off, are in the "job bank" and get 95% of their pay while in the job bank.. some have been in the job bank for over a year). GM's plan is to ditch Saturn and Pontiac (which kills me because they are my two favorites and I'm about to buy a Saturn Vue so I have no idea who will service it, honor the warranty, etc.). Chrysler just offered buy out packages to every white collar worker. They had to decide by last Wednesday whether to take it and many took it. Wednesday was their last day. Monday, almost every employee had a different job. I haven't heard final figures, but I've talked to people whose departments were cut by 75% through this buy out. Congress has all the plans now and the execs will be there later this week.

Details can be found here: http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/18191115/detail.html

Mulally and Wagoner both said they'd work for $1 per year -- something Chrysler's plan said Nardelli already does -- if their firms took any government loan money, while Ford offered to cancel management bonuses and salaried employees' merit raises next year, and GM said it would slash top executives' pay. Ford and GM both said they would sell their corporate aircraft.

The unions were preparing to make sacrifices as well. United Auto Workers leaders summoned local union leaders from across the country to an emergency meeting Wednesday in Detroit to discuss possible concessions. Up for discussion were the possibility of scrapping a much-maligned jobs bank in which laid-off workers keep receiving most of their pay and postponing the automakers' payments into a multibillion-dollar union-administered health care fund.

GM said it would make huge cuts in its numbers of workers as well as reductions in its vehicle brands and plants by 2012. The auto giant is seeking a $12 billion loan to keep it running, plus a $6 billion line of credit in case market conditions worsen.

GM would focus on four brands -- Chevrolet, GMC, Buick and Cadillac. By 2012, the plan calls for 20,000 to 30,000 fewer workers, a reduction of nine facilities and 1,750 fewer dealers.

The company also outlined efforts to negotiate swapping some of the company's debt for equity stakes in the automaker.

Chrysler said it would cut costs by slashing employee benefits -- including suspending its match portion of the 401(k) retirement plan and reducing its health care contribution for salaried workers -- and terminating its lease car program. It said it would also ask more productivity of each employee.

Chrysler's product plan includes the first full-function electric-drive model in 2010 and expansion to additional models by 2013. The company's market penetration of electric-drive vehicles will further increase with over 500,000 produced by 2013, the blueprint said.

Last edited by AGDee; 12-02-2008 at 09:34 PM.
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2008, 09:58 PM
preciousjeni preciousjeni is offline
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AGDee, thanks for posting! I'm really impressed with what they're doing.
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  #8  
Old 12-02-2008, 11:09 PM
epchick epchick is offline
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Yeah a lot of that was in the link I posted.

And again they seem to be making all these good ideas, but it's all about cutting funds from their employees. Yeah they'll sell their jets but what about their salaries? So they get paid $1 for the next year, they still have millions. How about giving some of their money back to companies.
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2008, 03:20 AM
KSig RC KSig RC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preciousjeni View Post
AGDee, thanks for posting! I'm really impressed with what they're doing.
I can appreciate what they're doing and definitely think it's a step in the right direction, but two things bother me:

1 - Much of this appears to be post hoc (especially after the PR backlash), which makes me wonder if the mentality of crowds is overriding the 'correct' decisions

2 - If this bailout were such a great idea/investment for the US Government, why aren't banks lining up to offer it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by epchick View Post
Yeah they'll sell their jets but what about their salaries? So they get paid $1 for the next year, they still have millions. How about giving some of their money back to companies.
This seems really . . . severe. Regardless of how poorly the guys did their jobs (and there's plenty of evidence they sucked), they earned the money, and that sort of "refund" from the past is a rounding error in the grand scheme of things. This really should be about moving forward, and if the companies are profitable, then the CEOs can justify their salaries again (most of whom had been successful elsewhere prior). The CEO salary issue is a talking point for the public, but it's simply a minor factor in the grand scheme of things.

Last edited by KSig RC; 12-03-2008 at 03:22 AM.
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  #10  
Old 12-03-2008, 03:45 PM
madmax madmax is offline
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Originally Posted by AGDee View Post
They all have plans..
Are the plans to get the bailout money or to improve the companies? At this point the execs have no credibility in my book. If they were sincere then they would have implemented the plans before it got to this point.


Hey look at us, we drove hybrids. Now can we have the 25 billion?
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  #11  
Old 12-03-2008, 04:12 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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They have been cutting and cutting and cutting. 400,000 jobs gone in Michigan already. This most recent crisis is due to the banking crisis which hit us in September. They weren't doing that badly until then. Please do your research.
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