government mandated slavery

[epchick]

Originally Posted by XSK_Diamond

I agree with you, but unfortunately that's not the case in practice. In order for Veterans to get health care via the VA, they have to have served for at least 24 months. I served for over a year in the military before I had to be discharged, and even though I got an Honorable Discharge and was never in trouble, because I didn't make it 24 months, I can't be seen at the VA hospitals or clinics.

Besides getting to use the GI Bill funds I'd paid into that system up until I got out (which wasn't much money), I have not received any other benefit from my military service. Not a thing because of the 24 month rule. Basically, the time I served counts for nothing and my contribution means nothing because it fell short of some arbitrary number. It's ironic that I saw this thread and am posting on Veteran's Day.

Wow are you serious? That sucks!! Although I will say, if my dad's experiences at VA are like other people's experiences at other VA's then having health benefits at VA isn't anything to want.

My dad was a Vietnam vet who got all his injuries from his time in the army. He still suffers from the effects of Agent Orange, and has had multiple surgeries on his back & neck from all the years he was jumping out of planes. Lately my dad has been having severe pains & losing the feeling in his extremities, but the VA doctors don't do anything. They are constantly losing his paperwork, or postponing/cancelling doctor's appts.

When he had his back & neck surgery, he was having complications and so he tried to call the doctor. But the doctor had up & left for a "vacation" in Europe. The doctor didn't come back for 3 months, yet the whole time my dad was in pain & no other VA doctor would see him.

The whole VA system needs to be reworked.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by epchick

My dad was a Vietnam vet who got all his injuries from his time in the army. He still suffers from the effects of Agent Orange, and has had multiple surgeries on his back & neck from all the years he was jumping out of planes. Lately my dad has been having severe pains & losing the feeling in his extremities, but the VA doctors don't do anything. They are constantly losing his paperwork, or postponing/cancelling doctor's appts.

I'm so sorry to hear that! I can imagine it's not only painful but frustrating/infuriating.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by XSK_Diamond

I agree with you, but unfortunately that's not the case in practice. In order for Veterans to get health care via the VA, they have to have served for at least 24 months. I served for over a year in the military before I had to be discharged, and even though I got an Honorable Discharge and was never in trouble, because I didn't make it 24 months, I can't be seen at the VA hospitals or clinics.

Besides getting to use the GI Bill funds I'd paid into that system up until I got out (which wasn't much money), I have not received any other benefit from my military service. Not a thing because of the 24 month rule. Basically, the time I served counts for nothing and my contribution means nothing because it fell short of some arbitrary number. It's ironic that I saw this thread and am posting on Veteran's Day.

As usual, it sounds like folks want to cut corners after you all had to deal with some stuff. Be it on the ground, air or on the ocean. No matter, if you are hurt due to your service, you need commensurate healthcare... That's my opinion.

Originally Posted by epchick

My dad was a Vietnam vet who got all his injuries from his time in the army. He still suffers from the effects of Agent Orange, and has had multiple surgeries on his back & neck from all the years he was jumping out of planes. Lately my dad has been having severe pains & losing the feeling in his extremities, but the VA doctors don't do anything. They are constantly losing his paperwork, or postponing/cancelling doctor's appts.

The whole VA system needs to be reworked.

The VA is a hot ghetto mess... My uncle who did 2 tours in 'Nam, got Agent Oranged and now has mesothelioma... He was a bomb tech--so some of that was VX and Napalm...

Part of the problem is a lack of qualified healthcare personnel. No hospital has enough qualified personnel in the US. Not enough doctors, not enough nurses, not enough CNA's, not enough PA-C, not enough people, period...

And don't ask about mental health care. Hopefully folks don't hurt themselves or loved ones too badly...

The reason why is because of severe restrictions into who is accepted into healthcare school and costs to attend these schools. Believe me, the UW med school has asked me repeatedly to apply and I just do NOT want to do it because I just cannot be $150K+ more in debt. What for--I'm 40 years old? Why?

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by XSK_Diamond

I agree with you, but unfortunately that's not the case in practice. In order for Veterans to get health care via the VA, they have to have served for at least 24 months. I served for over a year in the military before I had to be discharged, and even though I got an Honorable Discharge and was never in trouble, because I didn't make it 24 months, I can't be seen at the VA hospitals or clinics.

Besides getting to use the GI Bill funds I'd paid into that system up until I got out (which wasn't much money), I have not received any other benefit from my military service. Not a thing because of the 24 month rule. Basically, the time I served counts for nothing and my contribution means nothing because it fell short of some arbitrary number. It's ironic that I saw this thread and am posting on Veteran's Day.

Have you questioned this? If my mother remembers correctly, he served 22 months - 10 in combat - and has received care at a VA, and already has "reservations" in the local National Cemetery.

[DGTess]

It depends not only on the length of time you spend in service, but your disability rating, and your category.

After 22 military years, I am 10% "disabled" and among the lowest categories for service at VA facilities -- in essence, cannot be seen. Someone who serves less time, but is injured severely, or has a "service-connected" disability of some percentage is higher on the priority list. Except for the highest priority cases, everyone is seen on a space-available basis. The limited appointments and beds go to the highest priority.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Have you questioned this? If my mother remembers correctly, he served 22 months - 10 in combat - and has received care at a VA, and already has "reservations" in the local National Cemetery.

For some crazy reason, I think it also depends on when they served? I don't think my father served longer than a year and a half, but he was in Southeast Asia during the late 60s. That said, he has cancer related to Agent Orange and sees a VA doctor for some things, and uses his civilian doctor for non AO-related things, as well as a second opinion. He's had a pretty good experience with our local clinic, but it's also in a major military area, so maybe that helps.

I do know that, depending on when you served, you only have to have had 90 days of active duty service to qualify for a VA loan.

[Tinia2]

Originally Posted by XSK_Diamond

That doesn't mean he flip flopped. The first draft could have been put up prematurely before it was given final approval, or something. Geez, some of you act like Obama doesn't have people (who make mistakes) working for him. He's not doing all of this stuff himself. Get real. Please.

Change You Can't Click On

After one big change, Obama makes a few smaller changes to his Web site.

Now that the election is over, it's time to break some campaign promises! Because of the Web's constant hunger for new information, President-elect Barack Obama is in a uniquely difficult spot. He's issued and revised so many white papers and policy proposals that if he so much as sneezes the wrong way, he risks reversing something published on his campaign Web site.......

http://www.slate.com/id/2204041/?from=rss

[ZTAMich]

Forget all this!

PUPPIES

[AGDee]

For the last 8 years, we've had a President who never changed his mind on anything, even if new information demonstrated that he was 100% totally and completely wrong. I think it's a sign of intelligence to make a plan/goal and to alter that plan/goal as you receive new information that may pertain to it. However, the minute someone does that, or compromises so that at least part of their plan can move forward, they are called a flip-flopper. So, you can have stubborn and bull-headed in the face of facts or you can have someone who flip flops. I actually gained some respect for GW Bush this last week when I read an article where he said he regrets that Mission Accomplished speech. It's the first time I've ever seen any semblance of "I made a mistake" from him.

[Tinia2]

Originally Posted by AGDee

For the last 8 years, we've had a President who never changed his mind on anything, even if new information demonstrated that he was 100% totally and completely wrong. I think it's a sign of intelligence to make a plan/goal and to alter that plan/goal as you receive new information that may pertain to it. However, the minute someone does that, or compromises so that at least part of their plan can move forward, they are called a flip-flopper. So, you can have stubborn and bull-headed in the face of facts or you can have someone who flip flops. I actually gained some respect for GW Bush this last week when I read an article where he said he regrets that Mission Accomplished speech. It's the first time I've ever seen any semblance of "I made a mistake" from him.

^^^^Very well said AGDee. I agree with you.

[awkward1]

Originally Posted by ZTAMich

Forget all this!

PUPPIES

Puppies make everything better!

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AGDee

For the last 8 years, we've had a President who never changed his mind on anything, even if new information demonstrated that he was 100% totally and completely wrong. I think it's a sign of intelligence to make a plan/goal and to alter that plan/goal as you receive new information that may pertain to it. However, the minute someone does that, or compromises so that at least part of their plan can move forward, they are called a flip-flopper. So, you can have stubborn and bull-headed in the face of facts or you can have someone who flip flops. I actually gained some respect for GW Bush this last week when I read an article where he said he regrets that Mission Accomplished speech. It's the first time I've ever seen any semblance of "I made a mistake" from him.

Yeah, this is fair and I mostly agree, but you're kind of presenting a false dilemma when you conflate "adjusting to new information" and "admitting mistakes" - in specific, there are definite and decided advantages to the President (nearly) never admitting a "mistake" in those precise terms while in office, while there are few tangible benefits to a mea culpa speech while in office.

Rigidity is the sign of a small mind, but the sign of flexibility (especially for the President) is certainly not apology. It's neither necessary nor sufficient. In that way, it's kind of a crappy standard to hold Bush to - I wouldn't expect Obama to go "whoops, some of my programs suck and/or are infeasible, time to back off those campaign promises - sorry!"

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AGDee

For the last 8 years, we've had a President who never changed his mind on anything, even if new information demonstrated that he was 100% totally and completely wrong. I think it's a sign of intelligence to make a plan/goal and to alter that plan/goal as you receive new information that may pertain to it. However, the minute someone does that, or compromises so that at least part of their plan can move forward, they are called a flip-flopper. So, you can have stubborn and bull-headed in the face of facts or you can have someone who flip flops. I actually gained some respect for GW Bush this last week when I read an article where he said he regrets that Mission Accomplished speech. It's the first time I've ever seen any semblance of "I made a mistake" from him.

What new information do you think Obama has gotten that changed his mind?

I think it's hard to make the case that these changes are really based on information that he didn't know before. It just sounded better to express it one way for the campaign, but it's now unrealistic to deliver on. It happens every campaign, so I'm not trying to single Obama out. But I don't think we should praise it as a virtue in his case either.

[LightBulb]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

What new information do you think Obama has gotten that changed his mind?

I think it's hard to make the case that these changes are really based on information that he didn't know before. It just sounded better to express it one way for the campaign, but it's now unrealistic to deliver on. It happens every campaign, so I'm not trying to single Obama out. But I don't think we should praise it as a virtue in his case either.

I'm an Obama supporter, and I agree.

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

What new information do you think Obama has gotten that changed his mind?

I think it's hard to make the case that these changes are really based on information that he didn't know before. It just sounded better to express it one way for the campaign, but it's now unrealistic to deliver on. It happens every campaign, so I'm not trying to single Obama out. But I don't think we should praise it as a virtue in his case either.

Economic crisis? For most of the campaign we weren't in an "economic crisis". That could drastically change any person's mind. The only way it's not a flip-flop is if there is new information. If there is no new information then its just a flip-flop, but if there is new information it is a valid adjustment/ change in position.