Second Presidential Debate

[pinksirfidel]

Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes

That little clip made me laugh b/c I imagined how some morons will take that comment apart and make it out to be a HUGE pitfall and drama.

People are also picking apart the comment McCain made to an audience member... "you probably never heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before"... Although that statement stuck out to me, because I wondered who didn't know about Fannie/Freddie, I'm a little over the tid-for-tat in this election...by both the media and the candidates. It's getting old.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by pinksirfidel

People are also picking apart the comment McCain made to an audience member... "you probably never heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before"... Although that statement stuck out to me, because I wondered who didn't know about Fannie/Freddie, I'm a little over the tid-for-tat in this election...by both the media and the candidates. It's getting old.

pink another thing that is coming out too (on MSNBC) not only did he say it condescendingly I may add...he was addressing a Black male and also flubbed his name.

some other points

Mcain talked about buying up bad mortgages?

DIDNT THE US GOVT JUST DO THAT LAST WEEK???


another thing

especially since Palin spent the weekend and thru today talkign about it:

McCain had Obama on HIS floor in HIS format that he requested and not ONCE say CRAP about Ayres or Obama's 'questionable' associations?

and one last thing the MSM will pick apart

here is when McCain got unraveled

By the way, my friends, I know you grow a little weary with this back-and-forth. It was an energy bill on the floor of the Senate loaded down with goodies, billions for the oil companies, and it was sponsored by Bush and Cheney.

You know who voted for it? You might never know. That one. You know who voted against it? Me. I have fought time after time against these pork barrel -- these bills that come to the floor and they have all kinds of goodies and all kinds of things in them for everybody and they buy off the votes.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...al_debate.html

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

McCain had Obama on HIS floor in HIS format that he requested and not ONCE say CRAP about Ayres or Obama's 'questionable' associations?

I think it's been pretty well reported that Palin was tasked with pinning the association stuff on Obama, the goal was to keep McCain from having to do it.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

I think it's been pretty well reported that Palin was tasked with pinning the association stuff on Obama, the goal was to keep McCain from having to do it.

great send the woman to do the man's job.

nittany...on the real...that was McCains opportunity to slide it in..Palin been doing it all week....that is punkish to talk about a man when he is not there to defend himself but at the moment you have him right in front of you, you remain silent.

But this is how I feel: The American public doesn't want to hear about that

F**k a smear.....fix the economy.

[pinksirfidel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

pink another thing that is coming out too (on MSNBC) not only did he say it condescendingly I may add...he was addressing a Black male and also flubbed his name.

some other points

Mcain talked about buying up bad mortgages?

DIDNT THE US GOVT JUST DO THAT LAST WEEK???


another thing

especially since Palin spent the weekend and thru today talkign about it:

McCain had Obama on HIS floor in HIS format that he requested and not ONCE say CRAP about Ayres or Obama's 'questionable' associations?

and one last thing the MSM will pick apart

here is when McCain got unraveled

By the way, my friends, I know you grow a little weary with this back-and-forth. It was an energy bill on the floor of the Senate loaded down with goodies, billions for the oil companies, and it was sponsored by Bush and Cheney.

You know who voted for it? You might never know. That one. You know who voted against it? Me. I have fought time after time against these pork barrel -- these bills that come to the floor and they have all kinds of goodies and all kinds of things in them for everybody and they buy off the votes.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...al_debate.html

DaemonSeid--I didn't expect McCain to come out and make accusations about Obama-Ayers or attack his character all together. Why would he do such a dirty job and look bitter on primetime? I think that may be more appropriate for a rally.

I saw that it was a black man who asked the question, but honestly, i don't see the link between McCain's answers and the man itself... seems like a stretch to say he was taking down to him. Perhaps a presidential candidate should be better about remembering names, I suck at it, so I can't comment.

Regarding the "bail out for mortgages"... I was confused about this new proposal. I definitely wanted him to clarify.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by pinksirfidel

DaemonSeid--I didn't expect McCain to come out and make accusations about Obama-Ayers or attack his character all together. Why would he do such a dirty job and look bitter on primetime? I think that may be more appropriate for a rally.

I saw that it was a black man who asked the question, but honestly, i don't see the link between McCain's answers and the man itself... seems like a stretch to say he was taking down to him. Perhaps a presidential candidate should be better about remembering names, I suck at it, so I can't comment.

Regarding the "bail out for mortgages"... I was confused about this new proposal. I definitely wanted him to clarify.

I see it too...but the way it 'appeared' was just......off

Take it from me....when I ask you a question like that, the last thing I want from a white guy is to treat me like a child because obviously I understood it long enough to ask you about it.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

pink another thing that is coming out too (on MSNBC) not only did he say it condescendingly I may add...he was addressing a Black male and also flubbed his name.

some other points

Mcain talked about buying up bad mortgages?

DIDNT THE US GOVT JUST DO THAT LAST WEEK???


another thing

especially since Palin spent the weekend and thru today talkign about it:

McCain had Obama on HIS floor in HIS format that he requested and not ONCE say CRAP about Ayres or Obama's 'questionable' associations?

and one last thing the MSM will pick apart

here is when McCain got unraveled

By the way, my friends, I know you grow a little weary with this back-and-forth. It was an energy bill on the floor of the Senate loaded down with goodies, billions for the oil companies, and it was sponsored by Bush and Cheney.

You know who voted for it? You might never know. That one. You know who voted against it? Me. I have fought time after time against these pork barrel -- these bills that come to the floor and they have all kinds of goodies and all kinds of things in them for everybody and they buy off the votes.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...al_debate.html

The black kid and his name: Who cares?

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac: He actually said that some of you may not have even heard of them BEFORE THIS CRISIS. See the difference?

Bailout: No, read about the bailout bill if you want an in depth explanation, but the bailout authorized the secretary to buy mortgage backed tradable securities (pseudo-bonds essentially) from banks, not to buy and renegotiate mortgage portfolios.

Ayers: He didn't bring it up because he was never planning to. He's upset that they're having to use negative campaigning and that's why he's having the ads and Palin do it rather than going after those points himself.

"That one": It didn't bother me at all, but I'm sure Obama's campaign will manage to stir plenty of fury about it up from the Obamaniacs. Obama could say the same thing and I wouldn't be bothered then either. "You know which of us voted for that? It wasn't me, it was that one." I don't see the cause for the outrage, who cares? "Which one?" "That one." Seems like a pretty reasonable flow for the comment to me, but I'm not hyper sensitive and whining about "Mean ol' John" like the Obama campaign has made one of their goals of the debate, so maybe I'm missing something.

[pinksirfidel]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac: He actually said that some of you may not have even heard of them BEFORE THIS CRISIS. See the difference?

I'm still baffled... who has never heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac BEFORE this crisis? If overwhelmingly, people have never heard of such huge American mortgage organizations... that's sad. Just sad.

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

My opinion - not speaking for any political group here, just what I think. Health insurance is only "a right" in the sense that you have a right to have it if you want, you are welcome to get health insurance. It's not a right in the sense that you should just wait for someone to come insure you. We aren't a nanny state, watch out for yourself instead of expecting the government to save the day. It is a responsibility - if you are a responsible person you will take that responsibility and either go get a job with health benefits or make health insurance fit in your budget.

I know there are plenty of "responsible" people who would love a job that offers health insurance, but cannot nail one. If they aren't qualified for those jobs, I'm 99.9% certain they probably can't afford to fit "individual" health insurance into their budget.

Perhaps the health care "right" vs "responsibility" is another one of those issues we can all agree to disagree... Add to the list with abortion, gun control, same sex marriage and capitol punishment.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

"That one": It didn't bother me at all, but I'm sure Obama's campaign will manage to stir plenty of fury about it up from the Obamaniacs. Obama could say the same thing and I wouldn't be bothered then either. "You know which of us voted for that? It wasn't me, it was that one." I don't see the cause for the outrage, who cares? "Which one?" "That one." Seems like a pretty reasonable flow for the comment to me, but I'm not hyper sensitive and whining about "Mean ol' John" like the Obama campaign has made one of their goals of the debate, so maybe I'm missing something.

If Obama had said it, I would have said it was condescending. There's no reason not to use someone's name unless you're trying to make a point or a jab.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

The black kid and his name: Who cares?

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac: He actually said that some of you may not have even heard of them BEFORE THIS CRISIS. See the difference?

Bailout: No, read about the bailout bill if you want an in depth explanation, but the bailout authorized the secretary to buy mortgage backed tradable securities (pseudo-bonds essentially) from banks, not to buy and renegotiate mortgage portfolios.

Ayers: He didn't bring it up because he was never planning to. He's upset that they're having to use negative campaigning and that's why he's having the ads and Palin do it rather than going after those points himself.

"That one": It didn't bother me at all, but I'm sure Obama's campaign will manage to stir plenty of fury about it up from the Obamaniacs. Obama could say the same thing and I wouldn't be bothered then either. "You know which of us voted for that? It wasn't me, it was that one." I don't see the cause for the outrage, who cares? "Which one?" "That one." Seems like a pretty reasonable flow for the comment to me, but I'm not hyper sensitive and whining about "Mean ol' John" like the Obama campaign has made one of their goals of the debate, so maybe I'm missing something.

here is the quote:

"But you know, one of the real catalysts, really the match that lit this fire was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. I'll bet you, you may never even have heard of them before this crisis."

and from the way it appeared...he was addressing HIM when he said it....


again...it looked all kinds of wrong and condescending.


and can someone explain to me McCain wanting to plan another buy out?

'I would order the secretary of the treasury to immediately buy up the bad home loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at the new value of those homes -- at the diminished value of those homes and let people be able to make those -- be able to make those payments and stay in their homes.'


uhhh then what just happened last week?

[preciousjeni]

McCain reminds me so much of my late grandfather. I kinda want him to tuck me in and read me a bedtime story. I really like him as a person and I have been disgusted by jokes about his arms (among other things) that were the result of the sacrifice he made in Vietnam.

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

here is the quote:

"But you know, one of the real catalysts, really the match that lit this fire was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. I'll bet you, you may never even have heard of them before this crisis."

and from the way it appeared...he was addressing HIM when he said it....


again...it looked all kinds of wrong and condescending.


and can someone explain to me McCain wanting to plan another buy out?

'I would order the secretary of the treasury to immediately buy up the bad home loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at the new value of those homes -- at the diminished value of those homes and let people be able to make those -- be able to make those payments and stay in their homes.'


uhhh then what just happened last week?

Maybe it's just that I'm not looking to get offended, but I took it to mean that most people (particularly younger people who may not be home-owners yet, that looked like a college kid to me) didn't have a clue what the mortgage situation was or how the mortgage market was structured until it boiled over. That's how I interpreted it and I would guess what McCain meant, but if you want to be upset about it, be my guest.

And on the mortgage bailout, you're not catching the difference between mortgage-backed securities (what the government is about to start buying) and mortgages (what McCain proposed they buy).
A mortgage-backed security is essentially an investment device that pays dividends to holders (investors) using the interest income that the mortgages which back it bring in. It's a way for a mortgage holder to lower their risk in issuing or holding a mortgage because he can sell the right to some of the interest to a third-party. Because of that it was a popular way for issuers of sub-prime ARMs (which are at a high risk of default because of who they are being made to) to pass along some of their risk and make it relatively safer to issue sub-prime mortgages. Now that people aren't paying their mortgages and going into default, the security isn't receiving an interest payment, so they are losing money. Further, no one else wants to buy a junk security that isn't paying, so they can't sell them to anyone and have lost their entire investment. The government is buying these securities up to give money back to the investment houses which held them and take the "toxic debt" out of the market to let it die (or hopefully make some of the money back when the housing market turns around).
McCain's plan on the other hand is to buy the mortgages themself and let the government take the loss of converting the ARM's to fixed rate mortgages which should hopefully allow people to have lower payments which they could then afford to make. I assume the government would then sell the revised mortgages back onto the market. People paying their mortgage gives banks cash to lend out, so then banks can start making loans again and the credit market unfreezes.

I'm not an expert on hybrid-securities, but that's the way I understand it and hopefully it should help clear some things up.

[Virtual Violet]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

pink another thing that is coming out too (on MSNBC) not only did he say it condescendingly I may add...he was addressing a Black male and also flubbed his name.

some other points

here is when McCain got unraveled

By the way, my friends, I know you grow a little weary with this back-and-forth. It was an energy bill on the floor of the Senate loaded down with goodies, billions for the oil companies, and it was sponsored by Bush and Cheney.

You know who voted for it? You might never know. That one. You know who voted against it? Me. I have fought time after time against these pork barrel -- these bills that come to the floor and they have all kinds of goodies and all kinds of things in them for everybody and they buy off the votes.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...al_debate.html

I totally bristled at the "that one" comment (I thought is was rude and disrespectful not to refer to his opponent by name) , couple that with the fact that once again, Sen. McCain did not seem to want to be cordial to Sen Obama after the debate, makes me question whether to believe Senator McCain will actually make the effort to "reach across the aisle" in a bipartisan fashion as President. (I know he may have trouble actually shaking hands, but it seems that McCain avoids eye contact and hand shakes with Obama--- he did it at the last debate, on the Senate floor during the bailout, and tonight)

(CORRECTION) This morning Brokaw said the candidates did shake hands last night-but I still stand by my comments overall, McCain is "prickly" when in attack mode.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Virtual Violet

I totally bristled at the "that one" comment (I thought is was rude and disrespectful not to refer to his opponent by name) , couple that with the fact that once again, Sen. McCain did not seem to want to be cordial to Sen Obama after the debate, makes me question whether to believe Senator McCain will actually make the effort to "reach across the aisle" in a bipartisan fashion as President. (I know he may have trouble actually shaking hands, but it seems that McCain avoids eye contact and hand shakes with Obama--- he did it at the last debate, on the Senate floor during the bailout, and tonight)

Oh "That One" bounced out as soon as it was over while Obama stayed on the floor and talked with voters for 20 mins.....

short version is this: McCain was made to look like a grumpy old man who was desperate and many times appeared angry and contrite even with Brokaw...and Obama looked poised and polished....NO TELEPROMPTER needed.

[PeppyGPhiB]

I thought this format was a real disadvantage to McCain. Maybe he likes town halls when it's a Republican audience, but these weren't his peeps in the audience tonight. No one to laugh at his awkward "jokes" or ask the questions he's planted. I also thought he looked really OLD shuffling around the stage the way he did, and the more I listen to him, the older and shakier he sounds to me.

I watched after-debate coverage on CNN and MSNBC, and they made a few points over and over: the "that one" reference was disrespectful; that Obama looked/sounded like the future and McCain looked/sounded like the past; that McCain is out of touch with the generations younger than him that are watching the debate (all his nostalgia for Reagan); and that Obama seized the opportunity to talk to the debate attendees afterward whereas McCain took off.

BTW, MSNBC, CNN and CBS polls all are showing numbers overwhelmingly in Obama's favor tonight, not just in terms of who won the debate but also who is strongest on economy and who expresses their ideas more clearly.