Taxes and Candidates?

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Differing opinions aside, only clueless and socially irresponsible Americans feel this way. Safety nets have existed for generations but they were never protested because they benefited a certain segment of the population.

This isn't enough of a redistribution of wealth to be socialism.

Which part are you responding to, her first statement, or her comparison to socialism? Because, I agree that comparing "leveling the playing field" to socialism is going overboard.

However, if her first point (if I'm reading it correctly) means that the government can't be everything to everybody, then I'll agree with that.

And I'm fairly well-read on government aid programs and the legislative process as a whole, so I don't consider myself clueless about it, although you may disagree. I'll agree that the vast majority of the U.S. doesn't get it, and argues from a purely personal view (how will this affect my taxes, how will it affect my daily life, etc.)

Also, I disagree that safety nets "were never protested," because I think most every type of safety net, (such as college loan programs, benefits to corporations, lower mortgage rates for those with children, etc.) have been debated and protested over the years.

I think there's misunderstandings on both sides; fiscal conservatives who ignore the safety nets in place for corporations and those with high wealth, and those who want to throw money at social aid programs with no understanding of how they'll get paid for (the old "give money to everyone but don't raise my taxes" argument).

ETA: I'm not an economist, or an econ major, so I won't vouch for the technical truth of my statements (although I read a lot and try to stay educated on the issues). I'm trying to be more general in what I'm saying. Plus, it's tough to go really in depth on these issues over a message board, where you don't have the instant give and take.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Which part are you responding to, her first statement, or her comparison to socialism?

When I mention socialism in my post, I'm responding to her comparison to socialism.

Originally Posted by KSigkid

However, if her first point (if I'm reading it correctly) means that the government can't be everything to everybody, then I'll agree with that.

The fact that the government can't be everything to everybody goes without saying. It just can't be and isn't realistically expected to be.

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Also, I disagree that safety nets "were never protested," because I think most every type of safety net, (such as college loan programs, benefits to corporations, lower mortgage rates for those with children, etc.) have been debated and protested over the years.

There are different levels of debate and protest because there are different types of "safety nets" that target a different segment of the population.

I'm talking about the social welfare of the 1920s and 1930s, which many people credit to be the beginnings of the social welfare system as we know it. There were naysayers but there wasn't the same widescale protest that the more recent social welfare/social program models received. People pretty much felt that these programs were helping those who "truly needed/deserved it." There are race, gender, and social class implications in that.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

When I mention socialism in my post, I'm responding to her comparison to socialism.



The fact that the government can't be everything to everybody goes without saying. It just can't be and isn't realistically expected to be.

Ok, fair enough. Also, thanks for the clarification on your earlier point. I had misinterpreted the statement in the context of your post - that was my fault.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Ok, fair enough. Also, thanks for the clarification on your earlier point. I had misinterpreted the statement in the context of your post - that was my fault.

I also want to add that a safety net can't be your everything. This is where it is important to distinguish between the different types of social programs and safety nets. Some are intended to be short term fixes (i.e. you can't live off of unemployment or AFDC forever) and others are meant to be more longterm.

Understanding the purposes, origins, and transformations of the different social welfare programs is important when discussing this issue. It also makes it easier to tell the difference between adjusted-capitalism and pure socialism. One perspective on the longetivity of capitalism is that it will have to adjust to avoid falling apart.