CNNs Black in America w/ Soledad O'brien: July 19-27

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by SummerChild

IASK,
however, I guess it strikes me that, really, what we are facing today, e.g., teenage pregnancy...well, unfortunately, it's really not a new phenom in our community.
They didn't come up with this stuff all by themselves. It is so easy to sit back and say, we were so much better than you guys. But the fact of the matter is that, they come from us. These girls and guys having babies as teens - most of them come from households that are a mess. Guess what, those households come from households that were a mess too. I think that the only solution is to own up to it, we have failed some of these kids, and we need to start fixing our own crap.

SC

I completely agree with everything you said and I cant stand it when people condem my generation (I'm a very late 80's baby).

Bill Cosby had me peeved because he made it seem as if young black people were nothing but ignorant backward pieces of "dirty laundry" that black america does not want to deal with. Although, I understand what he meant with his comments I still can't get with him because of the way he describes my entire generation negatively. To hell with what the few people who do stand up for us try to say the majority opinion about young black people is negative.

My peers and I live with laws that say three or more of us together is a gang! What is this crap? If I went out with my two cousins (god forbid it if we wore similar colors) we'd be harassed and treated like criminals. I have been out with a friend and we were almost arrested for STWB (standing together while black). We are snubbed by ALL other (Africans, Asians, Whites, Latinos) people as well as older black people. Where do young people turn if those we should look to for guidance look back at us with contempt?

I see and have seen how young people get messed up by their parents and then don't know how to fix themselves. I am blessed to have a parent who could expose me to so much, but most of my generation is not as blessed as I have been. And even being as blessed as I am I still deal with more drama and problems than a little bit. (My mom and I just got into an argument because I didnt want to put one of her bills in my name. I know my mom and love her to death, but she never pays any bill on time. This a major utility bill. This means that when she doesn't pay it hurts my credit score and I'm a broke college student with no credit at all. So that means I go from no credit to bad credit, but if the bill is not in my name she doesn't get that essential service) When I do well in school, activism, speaking or whatever I am praised, but I am considered abnormal. Many older black people see me as someone who is beating the odds; not as someone who is realizing her God given potential with the help of strong men and women to guide me. I been to many events where I am the only young person (these are black events) and I get ignored. I remember one reception where I was going around "networking" and 90% of the people I met and told about my work blew me off. At the dinner I made an awesome speech and then all of them wanted to shake my hand and get my card.
God knows and I know that I am NOT that special! Everything that I do each child born is able to do. The difference is in the support system that they (dont) have and the opportunities available to them.
I lived in the hood. So I would come back from trips to UN world conferences to a neighborhood filled with trash. The closest stores sold porno mags, lil debbie cakes, candy, chips, and cheap juice/soda (also known as quarter waters or nutbusters). I used to say that we go from broken homes to broken schools and back day in and day out. If no matter where you go no one believes in and supports you what do you do?
I am motivated by negativity. If you don't believe in me that makes me work so hard that your only choices are to believe in me or turn your back on the truth because that is what I am; The Truth. But every person has their limit. At some point you stop trying to prove people wrong. At some point you just don't care anymore. Young Black People usually get to that point very quickly because they are being pushed and pulled to that point by so many forces.

As much as I know about how we are failing each other as a community and what ways we know of that can fix this......
I honestly don't see the necessary changes happening in the near future (and by near future I mean the next century).
I have faith; I have hope; I have a desire to work, but even with all of this i feel helpless at times!

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

Where do young people turn if those we should look to for guidance look back at us with contempt?

Where young people usually turn to... Each other--like minded individuals--that may be unsavory.

Mentoring and mentorship have fallen by the wayside.

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

When I do well in school, activism, speaking or whatever I am praised, but I am considered abnormal. Many older black people see me as someone who is beating the odds; not as someone who is realizing her God given potential with the help of strong men and women to guide me. I been to many events where I am the only young person (these are black events) and I get ignored. I remember one reception where I was going around "networking" and 90% of the people I met and told about my work blew me off. At the dinner I made an awesome speech and then all of them wanted to shake my hand and get my card.
God knows and I know that I am NOT that special! Everything that I do each child born is able to do. The difference is in the support system that they (dont) have and the opportunities available to them.

I wonder what city do you reside? Or what region? Because it is a "crabs in a barrel mentality that is killing us. My city thinks similarly and takes each other down without hesitation. What I have determined that part of this is because most kneegrows work for a corporate structure that has a culture of vulture. And they get so ingrained into it because of the money, when none of it is ours or matters in the end-game. I find it sad and another shackle we have to release ourselves. But it is doubtful.

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

If no matter where you go no one believes in and supports you what do you do?
I am motivated by negativity. If you don't believe in me that makes me work so hard that your only choices are to believe in me or turn your back on the truth because that is what I am; The Truth. But every person has their limit. At some point you stop trying to prove people wrong. At some point you just don't care anymore. Young Black People usually get to that point very quickly because they are being pushed and pulled to that point by so many forces.

As much as I know about how we are failing each other as a community and what ways we know of that can fix this......
I honestly don't see the necessary changes happening in the near future (and by near future I mean the next century).
I have faith; I have hope; I have a desire to work, but even with all of this i feel helpless at times!

Some of us older folks feel similarly The more things change, the more they stay the same.

That is why many of us say: keep yourself "educated" and always under study... The reason why we say this because you must NEVER stop learning because the Truth sets you free. Long time ago, all we had was faith and our ability to read the Bible. Now, things have changed and it is a brave new world out there. The internet keeps us connected and it has changed the way humans interact forever. Soon our governments are going to change into a new one with new and different challenges. Either we grow into a differrent kind of understanding or we rot, wither and die as we are young.

That haplessness you and many other feel is normal when times are tough. And for some reason we have to be keep striving. Because:

Mother To Son

Well, son, I’ll tell you:
Life for me ain’t been no crystal stair.
It’s had tacks in it,
And splinters,
And boards torn up,
And places with no carpet on the floor –
Bare.
But all the time
I’se been a-climbin’ on,
And reachin’ landin’s,
And turnin’ corners,
And sometimes goin’ in the dark
Where there ain’t been no light.
So boy, don’t you turn back.
Don’t you set down on the steps
‘Cause you finds it’s kinder hard.
Don’t you fall now –
For I’se still goin’, honey,
I’se still climbin’,
And life for me ain’t been no crystal stair.

- Langston Hughes, 1922

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Where young people usually turn to... Each other--like minded individuals--that may be unsavory.

I think it is. The blind can't lead the blind to safety. Or anywhere positive for that matter.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Mentoring and mentorship have fallen by the wayside.

In a million and one ways! Mentor's are a scarcity. At my school only the kids with behavorial problems (as in they showed out and did what they wanted when they wanted, but were not really bad kids) got mentors. Accelerated (black) kids didn't get anything. You either had to have the highest grades in the school or be the badest kid in the school to get attention. I mean in 6th grade my reading tests showed that I was reading on a second semester high school senior's reading level, but I wasn't in an advanced literature class until my mom and I decided I was either going to get into one or change schools. I constantly got the best grades, but was never tested for advanced placement in school. Since we moved a lot and my grades were really good my mom didnt press the subject. When I was in elem. school in a predominately white area I was in advanced writing classes. Coincidence? Hell NO! I think the lack of attention to accelerated black students was because of CIB mentality and low expectations of people in and around the public school system.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I wonder what city do you reside? Or what region? Because it is a "crabs in a barrel mentality that is killing us.

OMG! CIB mentality should be illegal! I've lived in different areas, but for most of the bad educational experiences I was in Georgia.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Some of us older folks feel similarly The more things change, the more they stay the same.

That is why many of us say: keep yourself "educated" and always under study... The reason why we say this because you must NEVER stop learning because the Truth sets you free.

I feel you. I vowed to never stop learning when I heard two things:
1. If you want to hide something from [expletive deleted] put it in a book because [expletive deleted] don't read.
and
2. The world can take whatever it wants from you. It can take life and limb, but what's up here (pointing to brain) No one and nothing can take that. Its yours forever.


This one was supposed to be short...my bad.

[SummerChild]

IASK,
I am not married nor do I have children but I find what you have pointed out to be very interesting. I agree that married women should not have to worry about having children with their husbands. I also think that married men should be responsible for their children. Period. Point Blank. The same stigma that attaches to a mother leaving her children should attach to a man leaving his children. I like that Barack Obama, in his speech on Father's Day, really drilled home the idea that men have to be responsible for their children. It is this kind of thinking/speaking out by someone that many people look up to that, I think, will begin to change the way that society thinks about the role of a man with his children. To me, it is ignorant, with a capital "I" for a judge to basically give a man a pass to behave like a child. That is ignorant and not the message that we should send society. Even if she was saying that women have to be responsible, the implication, by focusing so much on the *woman's* responsibility, is that the *man'* responsibility is less or diminished, relative to that of the mother, at least when it comes to kids.

I also think that family courts are to blame for this assinine way of thinking. Why give preference to a mother or a father? Some states don't have this antiquated preference anymore but some do. Are the courts implying that mothers are more important to a child's upbringing than a father? Are the courts implying that a man is not responsible enough to raise his kids? Are they giving the man a pass to act like a child? These issues need to be addressed b/c I would argue that they is what they are doing when they give the mother preference over the father. It.is.bologna. Why do that? To me, as a woman, that is just as offensive to me as the judge saying that I should not have children with my husband. Society needs to stop with making women feel like we are the natural parents and men are basically just the fertilizer. We are NOT the natural parents. So why does everyone loose their minds when the woman wants to go off and leave the kids with their fathers and she send child support (instead of the other way around)? There is no reason that the woman should be required to stay in society's mind and not send child support. To believe otherwise is to buy into the silly idea that men are not as good parents as women and that, by extension, their absence is more tolerable than a mother's absence. So if you believe that, then you are basically saying that the man is not necessary...and, then, of course, they can be excused from their manly duties of raising kids. The judges, family court, and our familes in general need to be overhauled in our thinking.

Ok, I'm off my feminist soapbox.
SC

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

I was watching Divorce Court and for 3 episodes in a row the judge told women that they should have considered the fact that a man can walk away at anytime and the high divorce rate before they decided to lay down and have children. While this is true partly, the judge was talking to married women. If you can't expect the man that you marry and make vows to to take of your children (that you two made together) then what should be done. Should everyone remain childless?

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by SummerChild

I also think that married men should be responsible for their children. Period. Point Blank. The same stigma that attaches to a mother leaving her children should attach to a man leaving his children...To me, it is ignorant, with a capital "I" for a judge to basically give a man a pass to behave like a child. That is ignorant and not the message that we should send society. Even if she was saying that women have to be responsible, the implication, by focusing so much on the *woman's* responsibility, is that the *man'* responsibility is less or diminished, relative to that of the mother, at least when it comes to kids.

I also think that family courts are to blame for this assinine way of thinking. Why give preference to a mother or a father? Some states don't have this antiquated preference anymore but some do. Are the courts implying that mothers are more important to a child's upbringing than a father? Are the courts implying that a man is not responsible enough to raise his kids? Are they giving the man a pass to act like a child? These issues need to be addressed b/c I would argue that they is what they are doing when they give the mother preference over the father. It.is.bologna. Why do that? To me, as a woman, that is just as offensive to me as the judge saying that I should not have children with my husband. Society needs to stop with making women feel like we are the natural parents and men are basically just the fertilizer. We are NOT the natural parents. So why does everyone loose their minds when the woman wants to go off and leave the kids with their fathers and she send child support (instead of the other way around)? There is no reason that the woman should be required to stay in society's mind and not send child support. To believe otherwise is to buy into the silly idea that men are not as good parents as women and that, by extension, their absence is more tolerable than a mother's absence. So if you believe that, then you are basically saying that the man is not necessary...and, then, of course, they can be excused from their manly duties of raising kids. The judges, family court, and our familes in general need to be overhauled in our thinking.

Ok, I'm off my feminist soapbox.
SC

I agree with some of what you said, Soror SC, but you know how many Maury shows there are about paternity. That is not a new or unusual phenomenon. I actually think some of these guest really do not know who the father is and tests are pricey. And enough sample must be collected... So in someways, what is the court supposed to say as to who the responsible adult for this child should be?

You know more than I that the first placement will be with the biological parent who desires full custody. And if it is neither, then foster care for hopes of adoption... But our children are ruminating through out the foster care system.

The other issue is I have a very nice youtube video from a Dr. of my current workplace who is saying key components of one's mental health stability and brain/neural development/learning are made at early childhood. Well, we all know that if you are poorly understand the ramifications of your upcoming pregnancy (typically when you are poor and young), it is highly likely that the resulting child will have behavioral issues as it grows up... And that is pretty sad since this physician was talking about the United States overall...

The other issue is one of Rape and sexual violence. A topic completely overlooked by the CNN documentary. There is a high rate of rape/sexual violence in the African American community, period. I think the stat is somewhere around 65%+. That includes incest. As many of us who are familiar with this issue, if it is either incest and/or child sexual abuse, what kinds of responsible relationship building would these poor children have? Now, I am not saying that everybody is jacking their children. But there is a curious stat that many of the teens here have been sexually molested or abused as children by either someone in their family or "mom's boyfriend" or etc... That means a different tactic has to be employed and this discussion NEVER happens in the Black community--much less where it needs to be, like church...

[TotallyWicked]

i did not see it nor did I record it on my DVR. A friend of mine sent me a link about the AIDS epidemic in Black America
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/condi...ml#cnnSTCVideo

was this discussed in the documentary? I volunteer with a Latino HIV/AIDS center, which caters to the large African American community on the West Side of Chicago (we serve all but this is the closest population to our center). I was also wondering if they were discussing not just HOW or WHY this epidemic was grown in the Black community, but also what is being done...

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by TotallyWicked

i did not see it nor did I record it on my DVR. A friend of mine sent me a link about the AIDS epidemic in Black America
http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/condi...ml#cnnSTCVideo

was this discussed in the documentary? I volunteer with a Latino HIV/AIDS center, which caters to the large African American community on the West Side of Chicago (we serve all but this is the closest population to our center). I was also wondering if they were discussing not just HOW or WHY this epidemic was grown in the Black community, but also what is being done...

No, the presentation was not made in the 2 major episodes. The one you have is separate from the others. The only info discussed in the documentary was the horrific statistic and how bad it is for us...

The did not discuss how or why the epidemic was growing in the Black community nor what can be done.

From my cursory examination by several HIV/AIDS researchers, public health specialists and folks at the clinics is that a strong early education prevention measures for safer sex with condoms need to be employed as well as testing promotion and the mental health support must be included--that is just for the uninfected.

With the infected, besides HAART, they need full support/therapy groups with community social support without judgment. The issue is that infected individuals in the Black community suffer from gross judgment and stigmas out of nowhere. An individual who already has low self-esteem who gets HIV suffers further, pretty much isolated and alone. And personally, that is poor healthcare. No one should be judged because they are sick. One would not say that to someone who had a heart attack because they are morbidly obese?

ETA: Thanks for the link. It was pretty good CNN did that kind of thing.

[DSTCHAOS]

I agree, SummerChild, it began long ago and fighting social problems is a continuous struggle.

I hope everyone knows that these are not new phenomena that we're dealing with, even if the numbers are skyrocketing. To get to a 70% single parenthood statistic, you have to have started generations ago. We're talking about ongoing cycles and generations of single parenthood, poverty, and other social issues that blacks are disproportionately represented in.

[knight_shadow]

I saw half of the "Black Women and Family" segment (haven't gotten around to watching the rest yet). I agree that it didn't say anything that I didn't already know, but it did open up the floor for communication between my friends and I (watched it with a black/filipino girl, haitian/lebanese guy, and chinese guy). Just that first half caused a 3 hour conversation about how "real" the situations depicted were.

I'm looking forward to watching the rest.

[SummerChild]

HC the females are children and the males are adults in your post?
SC

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

I saw half of the "Black Women and Family" segment (haven't gotten around to watching the rest yet). I agree that it didn't say anything that I didn't already know, but it did open up the floor for communication between my friends and I (watched it with a black/filipino girl, haitian/lebanese guy, and chinese guy). Just that first half caused a 3 hour conversation about how "real" the situations depicted were.

I'm looking forward to watching the rest.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by SummerChild

HC the females are children and the males are adults in your post?
SC

What the hell are you talking about? I hope you don't mean the "girl" and "guy" thing. If so, you're doing too much...

[SummerChild]

Ok, first of all, you're going to have to slow down and use the appropriate language when speaking to a woman. That kind of language is inappropriate when addressing a woman. I know that Summerchild may seem unisex but it's really not.

Ok, yes, I'm talking about the "girl" and "guy" thing. This has been an ongoing debate since the 60's. Is this the first that you're hearing of it? At any rate, whether it is or it isn't there are studies that show that the way of addressing a human is either indicative of the way that one thinks of the human or maybe it's the other way around. I'm not sure.

It would be like me referring to you or any other man as a "boy." This is analogous to an adult woman being referred to as a "girl."

SC

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

What the hell are you talking about? I hope you don't mean the "girl" and "guy" thing. If so, you're doing too much...

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by SummerChild

Ok, first of all, you're going to have to slow down and use the appropriate language when speaking to a woman. That kind of language is inappropriate when addressing a woman. I know that Summerchild may seem unisex but it's really not.

Ok, yes, I'm talking about the "girl" and "guy" thing. This has been an ongoing debate since the 60's. Is this the first that you're hearing of it? At any rate, whether it is or it isn't there are studies that show that the way of addressing a human is either indicative of the way that one thinks of the human or maybe it's the other way around. I'm not sure.

It would be like me referring to you or any other man as a "boy." This is analogous to an adult woman being referred to as a "girl."

SC

I just went back and re-read my reply to your original post. I did come off a bit harsh, and for that, I apologize.

I was a little put off because I didn't see the point in interrupting a discussion regarding the series with a lesson in gender equality. I could understand if I had posted that "two gentlemen and one broad" had watched the show -- there's no excuse for that. But to come after me for "guys and girl" seemed nitpicky. In any event, I'll try to be more mindful from now on.

Back to our regularly scheduled programming...

[DSTCHAOS]

Gender equality means that knight_shadow's gender-neutral way of typing to you is appropriate whether you're a woman or a man. All is fair in love and message boards.

knight_shadow, "guy" is typically used to refer to men. "Boys" are referred to as "boys." You (perhaps subconsciously) typed "girl" and "guy" which implies a nonadult female and an adult male. The question that Summerchild asked and her follow-up explanation are exactly right. However, this is a subconscious thing and that's why you'd think she was nitpicking. This isn't the worst thing in the world because "guy" is slang but it's almost as bad (or worse, depending) as referring to a group of males and females as "guys."

Yay! Woohoo!

[RedefinedDiva]

*standing up*

My name is RD and I am guilty of this.

*covering face*

OK, seriously, I do still refer to men and women, in coversation, as "girl" and "boy." I don't know why. In conversation, as a quick retort, I usually spout "Girl/boy, please!" I don't mean it was a means to belittle any man or woman, but it's just force of habit. I have been making a meaningful attempt to correct it since a guy I was conversing with "checked" me on it. I didn't even realize it until he got all loose and stated, "I'm not a boy. I'm a man." For a moment, I was confused as hell. Once he told me what I said, I apologized and began to make a conscious effort to correct it.

I don't think it's a subconscious means to put someone or myself down. I find that lots of folks that grew up in N.O. still refer to men/women as boys/girls just out of habit. Of course, out of respect for elders, we would never use those terms in reference to them. But if we are the same age, expect to be called a boy/girl. Another big one is to call them chicks/dudes.

I only use those words in very informal conversation and if anyone were to ever express discomfort with being referred to as such, I'd make every effort to correct it. It truly isn't intended to offend anyone.