Sorositute

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

From one of the better rappers (very few of them):
"when people speculate about what Pac would say
You don't know shit about a dead man's perspective."

Don't assume...I'm not saying you're not right, but I'm pretty sure that's a fallacious argument.

I agree. I also like to point out that though I think my founders were obviously very intelligent and far-seeing, they were also young, too.

They aren't gods, they aren't perfect.

[SWTXBelle]

I'm pretty sure I know why the founders of Gamma Phi Beta went to college and founded the sorority - they were kind enough to write about it. Having an interest in our history and ritual has meant reading much of what they, and other prominent early Gamma Phis, had to say.
So, I'm not guessing, or assuming, I'm stating a fact. The purpose of the sorority was indeed not to be able to trade jests and insults the way some men do. (The argument EW took issue with - I had no idea until AGD quoted him)

Sorry for any confusion .

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I'm pretty sure I know why the founders of Gamma Phi Beta went to college and founded the sorority - they were kind enough to write about it. Having an interest in our history and ritual has meant reading much of what they, and other prominent early Gamma Phis, had to say.
So, I'm not guessing, or assuming, I'm stating a fact. The purpose of the sorority was indeed not to be able to trade jests and insults the way some men do. (The argument EW took issue with - I had no idea until AGD quoted him)

Sorry for any confusion .

It was not the purpose, but I personally don't think my founders were deities. I'm sure that, somewhere along the line, they said/did things they shouldn't have done. Actually, I know so, and it's part of why I appreciate Alpha Gam. It's REAL.

"To possess high ideals and to attain somewhat unto them".

[AnchorAlum]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Then I feel sorry for those women and their lack of sense of self-worth. I really do. And I question the values the men are being raised with if they think it's ok too.

I agree. For women to accept that term as applied by men, it's offensive to those of us of a certain age group from the 60's and 70's who had to fight for equal footing.

If you think it's okay to be called that, or to allow guys to call your sisters that because it refers to the behavior of sorority women in sleeping with the guys, and that's oh well, just how it is because you're over the whole gender thing, it's ironic. If indeed the whole gender thing is over, then there can BE no such thing as a sorostitute. It's equal opportunity sleeping around, right?

If you disagree, then you've just acknowledged that you are willing to accept what GUYS have decided they can call you. They get to label you!

Good Lord, who gave men the right to call you this name? And are you going to sit on your arses and take it? The power is yours. Maybe you all have forgotten that?!

Okay, rant over.

[KappaKittyCat]

I have a non-Greek friend who went to UGA who used that word to describe the female Greeks at her alma mater. In the interest of gender equality, she also referred to the male Greeks as "fraternity rapists." When I took umbridge at that remark, she stammered and said, "But it's different at your school."

*shakes head* How can intelligent people think saying something like that is okay?

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

It was not the purpose, but I personally don't think my founders were deities. I'm sure that, somewhere along the line, they said/did things they shouldn't have done. Actually, I know so, and it's part of why I appreciate Alpha Gam. It's REAL.

"To possess high ideals and to attain somewhat unto them".

So, they'd be cool with sorositute? Okay. I'll take your word for it.

I'm far from a deity, and my founders were all too human, but I don't think that means we have to settle for that which is demeaning or insults women. I don't see "sorositute" as defining the highest form of womanhood in any way, shape, or form. My creed is absolutely "REAL" and something that I strive for, whether or not I always obtain it.

The exact context for the beginning of this discussion was the idea that equality with men meant indulging in the kind of bantering some men do, insulting each other "just for fun". (Not, I hasten to add, that all men think this is acceptable. But several on GC have indicated that this is in fact the norm for their peer group.) I still don't think that was what most women pioneers in education had in mind as they set forth to prove they were the intellectual equals of men. I refuse to believe that wanting to be treated as intellectual equals means that we have to accept being insulted. For what it is worth, I don't allow my sons to use demeaning language with each other, or about anyone else. To me, it's not a male or female issue, it's one of simple human respect.

And that said, let's not make this something it's not. All of my Syracuse Triad cousins, and my NPC ones, too, can take pride in the strides made by their founders in promoting the real, concrete, and totally realistic view of women and their abilities.

eta - Let me say I think ALL sorority members can take pride in their GLOs achievements - I'm just most familiar with NPC.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by SNBullet

considering how a poster claimed that women deserve better and have fought for equality and such, isnt being called derogatory names, names guys use to refer to each other in jest, the ultimate form of inclusion and equality? If guys are treating girls like guys, isnt it a sign of the acceptance of womens equality?

Not if the language is used to denigrate women and reinforce a woman's position as inferior.



**Though I have had another argument elsewhere about whether or not calling women members of fraternites brother is inherently sexist.**

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

So, they'd be cool with sorositute? Okay. I'll take your word for it.

I'm far from a deity, and my founders were all too human, but I don't think that means we have to settle for that which is demeaning or insults women. I don't see "sorositute" as defining the highest form of womanhood in any way, shape, or form. My creed is absolutely "REAL" and something that I strive for, whether or not I always obtain it.

The exact context for the beginning of this discussion was the idea that equality with men meant indulging in the kind of bantering some men do, insulting each other "just for fun". (Not, I hasten to add, that all men think this is acceptable. But several on GC have indicated that this is in fact the norm for their peer group.) I still don't think that was what most women pioneers in education had in mind as they set forth to prove they were the intellectual equals of men. I refuse to believe that wanting to be treated as intellectual equals means that we have to accept being insulted. For what it is worth, I don't allow my sons to use demeaning language with each other, or about anyone else. To me, it's not a male or female issue, it's one of simple human respect.

And that said, let's not make this something it's not. All of my Syracuse Triad cousins, and my NPC ones, too, can take pride in the strides made by their founders in promoting the real, concrete, and totally realistic view of women and their abilities.

eta - Let me say I think ALL sorority members can take pride in their GLOs achievements - I'm just most familiar with NPC.

Did I say that and can you quote me on it?

My point was that I do not think "sorostitute" is going to bring down all women and set us back to the 1800's.

And I'd love to take this time to point out that every time I've heard the word, it's been women who have used it. If you want to get so upset over "ho" and such, talk to your fellow females, first. They are just as likely, if not more so, to use those words in public.

I'm just never going to be convinced that it's the big of a deal. I'll save my righteous anger for things like genocide, for instance.

[bejazd]

I think most of us can agree that our founders...of all of our greek letter orgs, would be appalled at the idea of fraternity men or women referring to sorority women as sorostitutes.

IMO, women like me...Gen X and later...have grown up with the concept that we were equal to men and could do anything a man could do. Even cuss or be promiscuous or provocative in all kinds of ways that shock our elders. I've had a long running joke with a pledge sister based on the whole "Jane you ignorant slut" thing for years. But as I get older, it's not nearly as funny as it was when we were 19.

One difference that still remains in my opinion, is that men can talk trash to each other on the field or in the locker room or even in the workplace, and quickly gt over it. Women don't. We remember those words and take them much closer to heart than we want to admit. While we can't control what men will say about us, we sure can do something about our own behavior. There's just nothing to be gained from calling our sisters degrading names, even when we attach the "just kidding" to the end of it.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by bejazd

We remember those words and take them much closer to heart than we want to admit.

The same applies to men.

They've just been taught to laugh it off and not express how it makes them feel.

[I think the potential offense from "sorostitute" stands alone without comparing men and women.]

[tld221]

Originally Posted by SOPi_Jawbreaker

My post was kinda in response to your "p.s. i cant imagine the phrase "sorostitute" being actually used. i feel like you'd be waiting for the right time to use it. and thats lame." I never heard the word when I was at Pitt. When I was at PSU, I've only heard the word once from a Greek and he was just joking around with me. All the other times I've heard it, it's been from non-Greeks...and it's usually been in regards to parties (either not getting in or having to deal with all the drunken people walking around outside being loud and not watching where they're going)...usually saying something along the lines of "stupid frat boys and sorostitutes".



ETA (because in rereading, I see my post might still be kinda unclear): Basically, my post was about people who generalize about the entire Greek system. If someone is using the term sorostitute to refer to a particular individual engaging in questionable behavior, then it's not going to matter what school it's at. My point was that the term may not be heard as much at schools with smaller Greek systems where Greek life isn't as in-your-face. But at a school with a larger Greek system, Greek life may be more in-your-face and may inspire more hatred for no reason (i.e. people hating on Greeks without ever taking the time to find out what Greek life is all about or taking the time to get to know any Greeks).

hmm i kinda see your point. i just the phrase is dumb. not because its degrades women in sororities, because it doesnt even roll off the tongue. its not even catchy. which is why i said it seems like people would just be waiting for the right time to throw the word in conversation.

now why not use "whorority girl?" i mean it works so much better, has way more zing, and i could work it into convo way better! (ETA: ok i see post #125. so much for originality. but my argument still sticks, mmk?)

ex. dude is barred from getting in greek mixer (clearly this is an over the top stereotypical example so excuse me for 2.5 seconds)

fraternity guy: sorry, party's just for us, none for you!
bitter offensive presumably non-greek: what the hell, i wouldnt wanna do keg stands and talk to slutty sororstitutes anyway!

or...

fraternity guy: sorry, party's just for us, none for you!
bitter offensive presumably non-greek: what the hell, i wouldnt wanna do keg stands and talk to slutty whorority girls anyway!

see? if youre gonna throw some mud, at least make it sound cool. not like some lame mid-90s afterschool special crap.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

It was not the purpose, but I personally don't think my founders were deities. I'm sure that, somewhere along the line, they said/did things they shouldn't have done. Actually, I know so, and it's part of why I appreciate Alpha Gam. It's REAL.

"To possess high ideals and to attain somewhat unto them".

Okay, here's the quote where you brought in the idea of thinking that founders were deities, and somehow equate being human and having "said/did things they shouldn't have" with the word "sorositute". I've looked in vain for a discussion of how that word brings us back to the 1800s - actually, I can speak as a Victorian literature specialist and tell you that the verbal communication between the sexes inthe 1800s was far more formal than today, and if the word had been formed then there would have been no question of it being used by men in the presence of women. If I haven't been clear before, let me be so now - I wouldn't feel any better hearing the word being used by a woman - I think it is objectionable used by anyone. My statements haven't been addressed solely to men, except when male posters made a statement. Don't be dragged off topic by EW and the like.

I know there are some women who don't object to the word. I'm not saying I understand their logic, but I have read the rest of the thread (which I started specfically to see other people's take on it.)

As far as being upset about things of more import - well, of course. On the grand scale of things, this pales besides genocide. But this particular thread is specifically addressing the use of an objectionable word. You need to go to the genocide thread to express your righteous anger about that.