Why Haze!!

[jon1856]

Everyone is coming up with all sorts of definitions and POVs.
Perhaps one should take some time to read the following definitions-not based on law per se just common sense:
http://www.stophazing.org/mythsandfacts.html
http://www.hazing.cornell.edu/myths.html
http://www.stophazing.org/definition.html
http://www.insidehazing.com/definitions.php

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by jon1856

not based on law per se just common sense:

What's the point of reinforcing the grey area of "common sense?"

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

What's the point of reinforcing the grey area of "common sense?"

Well, I do not know if you took the time to read all or even any of the links.
So for common sense:
All chapters operate under the following:
1) Their National laws, rules and regulations.
2) Their schools rules and regulations including anti-hazing and Student Code of Conduct.
3) Any and all local, State and National laws, rules and regulations.

And we all know that all of those are different every where.

So here are some links from a rather large Southern School covering most, if not all, of the above:
http://deanofstudents.utexas.edu/eve...Memorandum.pdf
http://deanofstudents.utexas.edu/eve...memorandum.php
http://deanofstudents.utexas.edu/sjs/conduct.php
http://registrar.utexas.edu/catalogs.../app/appf.html
http://deanofstudents.utexas.edu/gle...n-Summer05.pdf
http://www.stophazing.org/laws/tx_law.htm

Now there have been posters in many of the threads here in RM that have indicated that the hazing goes on at the "upper tier chapters" and no one cares. Well:

PENALIZED ORGANIZATIONS

In accordance with

Texas Hazing Statute requirements, the following list of organizations have had hazing penalties enforced within
the last three years:

Phi Kappa Psi

Penalty issued February 7, 2006 (Cancelled through

February 6, 2007; Suspended through February 6, 2008; Probation
through February 6, 2009).
• Lambda Phi Epsilon Penalty issued December 20, 2005 (Cancelled
through December 19, 2011; Suspended through December 19, 2012;
Probation through December 19, 2013).
• Sigma Phi Omega Penalty issued September 15, 2005 (Suspended
through December 31, 2005; Probation through December 31, 2006).
• alpha Kappa Delta Phi Penalty issued April 25, 2005 (Suspended
through April 25, 2006; Probation through April 26, 2007).
• Sigma Alpha Epsilon Extended probation.
• Kappa Alpha Order Penalty issued December 14, 2004 (Cancelled
through December 31, 2006; Suspended through December 31, 2007;
Probation through December 31, 2008).
• Pi Lambda Phi Penalty issued December 9, 2003 (Probation
through December 5, 2004).
• Sigma Chi Penalty issued April 26, 2004 (Cancelled through May
31, 2007; Suspended through May 31, 2008; Probation through
December 31, 2008).
• Sigma Alpha Mu Penalty issued December 7, 2001 (Suspended
through February 15, 2002; Probation through 2003). Penalty issued
December 2002 (Cancelled through December 31, 2004; Suspended
through December 31, 2005; Probation through December 7, 2007.
• Alpha Phi Alpha Penalty issued April 16, 2001 (Cancelled through

December 31, 2003; Probation through December 31, 2004).

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Well, I do not know if you took the time to read all or even any of the links.

My point (since your links were about nonlegal definitions and debunking myths):
There should be few hazing definitions and policies based on "common sense" because what is "common sense" to me isn't "common sense" to everyone. Everything should be based on the legal definition, wherever it comes from.

True Story:
Years ago, I had a fraternity member say to me "you've never loved an organization or appreciated it until you've almost died for it." That stupid stuff makes complete sense to him and a lot of people. They would consider that pledging and not hazing and judge others' love for their organization based on that. Call them crazy but they call us crazy.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

My point (since your links were about nonlegal definitions and debunking myths):
There should be few hazing definitions and policies based on "common sense" because what is "common sense" to me isn't "common sense" to everyone. Everything should be based on the legal definition, wherever it comes from.

True Story:
Years ago, I had a fraternity member say to me "you've never loved an organization or appreciated it until you've almost died for it." That stupid stuff makes complete sense to him and a lot of people. They would consider that pledging and not hazing and judge others' love for their organization based on that. Call them crazy but they call us crazy.

It's all a harmless difference of opinion until someone gets hurt and/or loses their charter.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's all a harmless difference of opinion until someone gets hurt and/or loses their charter.

Which is why I don't talk about "common sense" when it comes to hazing.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Which is why I don't talk about "common sense" when it comes to hazing.

Read the links I gave above from the Southern School. Some of them are just about common sense rules and laws.
I do believe that we are on the same page.
I lost my home chapter because of a combination of violations of hazing and student code violations. "Dumb, dumber, and dumbest".

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Which is why I don't talk about "common sense" when it comes to hazing.

Is there any realy common sense when it comes to hazing?

[bowsandtoes]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Phi Kappa Psi

Penalty issued February 7, 2006 (Cancelled through

February 6, 2007; Suspended through February 6, 2008; Probation
through February 6, 2009).

• Lambda Phi Epsilon Penalty issued December 20, 2005 (Cancelled
through December 19, 2011; Suspended through December 19, 2012;
Probation through December 19, 2013).
• Sigma Phi Omega Penalty issued September 15, 2005 (Suspended
through December 31, 2005; Probation through December 31, 2006).
• alpha Kappa Delta Phi Penalty issued April 25, 2005 (Suspended
through April 25, 2006; Probation through April 26, 2007).
• Sigma Alpha Epsilon Extended probation.
• Kappa Alpha Order Penalty issued December 14, 2004 (Cancelled
through December 31, 2006; Suspended through December 31, 2007;
Probation through December 31, 2008).
• Pi Lambda Phi Penalty issued December 9, 2003 (Probation
through December 5, 2004).
• Sigma Chi Penalty issued April 26, 2004 (Cancelled through May
31, 2007; Suspended through May 31, 2008; Probation through
December 31, 2008).
• Sigma Alpha Mu Penalty issued December 7, 2001 (Suspended
through February 15, 2002; Probation through 2003). Penalty issued
December 2002 (Cancelled through December 31, 2004; Suspended
through December 31, 2005; Probation through December 7, 2007.
• Alpha Phi Alpha Penalty issued April 16, 2001 (Cancelled through

December 31, 2003; Probation through December 31, 2004).

Those 'penalties' really don't do anything. At the worst, the chapter just leaves IFC, but that doesn't really affect much. SAE couldn't have parties at the house for awhile but those were extreme circumstances, they're fine now.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by bowsandtoes

Those 'penalties' really don't do anything. At the worst, the chapter just leaves IFC, but that doesn't really affect much. SAE couldn't have parties at the house for awhile but those were extreme circumstances, they're fine now.

I knew that Bows.
However it would seem as if TPTB on campus have given rather clear "notice" to all students.
And that is generally not done just to keep an Ad min busy for a day or two.
And it is TPTB, much more than IFC, that has control over matters. And leaving IFC is just the ez way to go.
And unfortunately that is something most students just to not care or wish to understand until it is too late.
And yes, I am speaking from experience.

[PrettyBoy]

[KonfidentOne]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

All I can say is wow... I was NOT expecting that, lol...