Wisconsin Capitol Building's "Holiday Tree"

[skylark]

I guess I am just really sympathetic to religious minorities, especially around the holidays when everyone tends to get so "in your face" about celebrating christmas and if you don't celebrate it, then your lives should revolve around others who do. I mean, I certainly there are definitely worse things in the world, but I think it wouldn't kill us to make our society a little more friendly to people of any religion simply because that is what we would want if we were in their position.

Some factors I think that would make me feel isolated, uncomfortable, and just more difficult as a religious minority would be:
- having to use half my vacation time every year to celebrate my own religious holidays, while having to take random days off to honor religions that I don't celebrate.
- working or having to frequently visit a government building and listening to religious songs by carolers and having to walk by christian religious symbols every day.
- watching the media honor christian religious holidays with special programming every year while ignoring minority religions.
- being told "merry christmas" by every sales person for about a month every year and having them look offended at me if I don't return the sentiment or (gasp) say something like "happy hannukah" or "happy kwanzaa."
- watching my tax dollars spent on things that honor christian holidays (vacation of government employees, government christmas trees and nativity sets, government statues and other decorations that display christian biblical things, etc.)

(note: not all of these things I think can be solved, but I think that they are things to consider in possibly doing something symbolic that might really make someone feel more included ... like putting up a friggin menorah or other religions' symbols as ornaments on a "holiday" tree that taxpayers of all religions pay for.)

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by skylark

I guess I am just really sympathetic to religious minorities, especially around the holidays

BARF

Originally Posted by skylark

working or having to frequently visit a government building and listening to religious songs by carolers

Since when did the government start sending out carolers?

Originally Posted by skylark

watching the media honor christian religious holidays with special programming every year while ignoring minority religions.

Holy Shit you're a GRINCH!

Originally Posted by skylark

note: not all of these things I think can be solved, but I think that they are things to consider in possibly doing something symbolic that might really make someone feel more included ...

BARF!

I hope your bleeding heart liberal approach to Christmas never gets realized.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I hope your bleeding heart liberal approach to Christmas never gets realized.

... and I hope to God that more jackasses like you come around to her "liberal" approach of accommodation, respect, or empathy when it comes to accepting that not everyone is exactly like you.

It's Christmas which is a time to reflect upon the birth of Christ and what he meant for the world - "Peace on Earth" and "Respect for your fellow man"... and to me that means respecting that not even all Christians celebrate Christmas the same way or at the same time, and to respect that just as I hope they respect my religious practises.

So when the big Christmas dinner rolls around and all the family and friends gather it means as a gracious and respectful host I take steps to ensure that people with different dietary needs are accommodated and that people of different faiths/denominations aren't left-out ~ it's just expected of a good host... and you can make of that what you will when the same principle is applied at all levels of society.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by RACooper

... and I hope to God that more jackasses like you come around to her "liberal" approach of accommodation, respect, or empathy when it comes to accepting that not everyone is exactly like you.

Who the hell do you think you are bud?? When did I ever say that I wouldn't respect anothers belief because it doesn't reflect my own? You need to stop posting on this one, canadian, because you don't seem to fully understand American culture, especially concerning Christmas. One last thing.. just want to say your WWE in Iraq post was garbage. Local Iraqi television doesn't get USO shows, and the households that have satellite can see a lot worse than WWE I'm sure. HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Who the hell do you think you are bud??

Someone expressing an opinion, just as you do and are.

When did I ever say that I wouldn't respect anothers belief because it doesn't reflect my own?

I just assumed given your responses to those that fell outside your beliefs or reflection of them, but perhaps I misread when you took shots at the beliefs of JWs... or your responses to Skylark in which the "dangerous" idea of respect and empathy where expressed.

You need to stop posting on this one, canadian, because you don't seem to fully understand American culture, especially concerning Christmas.

Listen shit-stain I don't appreciate the disrespectful and insulting fucking lack of capitalization of my country, nor the dismissive/insulting tone it was used in.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Listen shit-stain I don't appreciate the disrespectful and insulting fucking lack of capitalization of my country, nor the dismissive/insulting tone it was used in.

Why are you so mean??

I thought you were a touchy-feely everyone gets a fair share of pie socialist?

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Why are you so mean??

I thought you were a touchy-feely everyone gets a fair share of pie socialist?

I'm a Red Tory Monarchist who believes very strongly in the tradition and philosophy of 'noblesse oblige'... which for some bizarre reasons the Libertarians and Republicans interpret as "socialism".

[skylark]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Since when did the government start sending out carolers?

They were in my local courthouse for a week this year.

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Holy Shit you're a GRINCH!

Not really... I like holiday programming as much as the next person and my own house is pretty decked out. I'm not advocating that we get rid of any of it, but that we consider how much it is out there when we make the decision to let the GOVERNMENT put up decorations that advocate specific beliefs ... the problem I have is when GOVERNMENT money and GOVERNMENT personnel start trying to make the GOVERNMENT support only one religious faith's holiday.

And I'm failing to see how your point that most of "those countries" ban christianity anyway addresses my hypothetical anyway. It is a hypothetical, so use your imagination. I think that many of us think we would be fine being a minority religion and wouldn't want acknowledgment of our faiths, but I think that the simple fact that so many people are so reluctant to give up ANY acknowledgment of a majority religion is a perfect demonstration of how personal religious practice is and how frustrating it is when there are obstacles. If you think that making symbolic acknowledgments of a minority religion is a problem, I'd hate to think how you'd cope with living in a country that all but ignored your beliefs, but required you to make concessions for others' religious practices more convenient.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by skylark

They were in my local courthouse for a week this year.



Not really... I like holiday programming as much as the next person and my own house is pretty decked out. I'm not advocating that we get rid of any of it, but that we consider how much it is out there when we make the decision to let the GOVERNMENT put up decorations that advocate specific beliefs ... the problem I have is when GOVERNMENT money and GOVERNMENT personnel start trying to make the GOVERNMENT support only one religious faith's holiday.

And I'm failing to see how your point that most of "those countries" ban christianity anyway addresses my hypothetical anyway. It is a hypothetical, so use your imagination. I think that many of us think we would be fine being a minority religion and wouldn't want acknowledgment of our faiths, but I think that the simple fact that so many people are so reluctant to give up ANY acknowledgment of a majority religion is a perfect demonstration of how personal religious practice is and how frustrating it is when there are obstacles. If you think that making symbolic acknowledgments of a minority religion is a problem, I'd hate to think how you'd cope with living in a country that all but ignored your beliefs, but required you to make concessions for others' religious practices more convenient.

As Cutiepie2000 said, when in Rome, do as the Romans. If I lived in a country that was, say, majority/historically Scientology and only celebrated things Scientology then that's the way that country works. I may or may not take off Christian holidays. Also, I wouldn't worry about any kids I have being brainwashed/converted because the best school in the land is the John Travolta Academy, which requires its students to study Scientology without (much) acknowledgement of other religions.

[GeekyPenguin]

I really hope you all are supporting the Wisconsin economy by drinking some Spotted Cow while you are reading this thread.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Here's my problem with religious minorities and the "feel good" liberals that are even crazier than they are:

The United States allows these religious minorities to immigrate and become citizens here AND provides the best opportunities IN THE WORLD for them to better their own lives.

I cannot think of a single reason why we, as Christians, should bend over backwards to accomodate these people when they should be grateful for the better life they're living in the first place!

There are certain sacrifices they make to start a life here.
I don't think any Chinese really mind a "Merry Christmas" when they could be paying an arm and a leg to keep their four children.
Likewise, the Israelites probably aren't bothered by "ABCs 25 days of Christmas" when they could be living in fear of being killed just for being Jewish.

And FURTHERMORE, you don't see Americans in the middle east parading around in their short shorts and tank tops. It just blows my mind when people think the US isn't sensitive enough to minorities...

Alright, I'll stop now.

Well, lots of Chinese are Christian, at least in this part of the world, so yeah, they'll celebrate Christmas.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

And FURTHERMORE, you don't see Americans in the middle east parading around in their short shorts and tank tops. It just blows my mind when people think the US isn't sensitive enough to minorities...

Apparently you missed the WWE Christmas event coverage in Iraq then...

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by RACooper

What?!?

Seems your just like the students that expect the world to revolve around their faith, and can't understand or respect the observances of another - I'm sure the students were informed well in advance that she'd be taking days of for religious reasons, and if those students weren't smart enough to make arrangements to allow for this then it reflects poorly on them not the professor.

It cracks me up everytime he gets y'alls goats with his outlandish statements.

Originally Posted by RACooper

Apparently you missed the WWE Christmas event coverage in Iraq then...

If you see a 450lb WWE Superstar in shorts, are you really going to say something to him? SRSLY. Plus, it was an American event, attended by Americans. I don't think they paraded around Baghdad in their wresting costumes.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

If you see a 450lb WWE Superstar in shorts, are you really going to say something to him? SRSLY.

Probably - I got a mouth and I'm opinionated, and I can't stand the WWE or the values it promotes... and I have said so in the past (of course he was in a suit at the bar).

Plus, it was an American event, attended by Americans. I don't think they paraded around Baghdad in their wresting costumes.

... and graciously broadcast as well for stations and posts that couldn't personally attend - so everything was fine as long as no Iraqis bothered to watch TV

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Probably - I got a mouth and I'm opinionated, and I can't stand the WWE or the values it promotes... and I have said so in the past (of course he was in a suit at the bar).

If you don't like it, don't watch it.

... and graciously broadcast as well for stations and posts that couldn't personally attend - so everything was fine as long as no Iraqis bothered to watch TV

This is like that woman that tried to get Touched By An Angel taken off the air - THERE ARE OTHER CHANNELS. If the Playboy Channel is against your values, DON'T WATCH IT.