Wisconsin Capitol Building's "Holiday Tree"

PhiGam · #1 12-21-2007, 01:23 AM

Unfortunately, I'm not joking.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316368,00.html

Quote:

MADISON -The 35-foot tall balsam fir standing proudly in the rotunda of the Wisconsin Capitol is a familiar annual December display, but it'd be a mistake to call it a "Christmas tree," much to the dismay of one Badger State lawmaker now leading a legislative fight to change the name of the evergreen.

LPIDelta · #2 12-21-2007, 09:49 AM

Ugh. We've been having this debate at work lately.

Drolefille · #3 12-21-2007, 10:02 AM

It's interesting, at my (state) job, in my bureau, it's pretty much assumed that everyone's Christian and celebrates Christmas. Nativities are displayed, the cards I've received have all been religious (but one) and advertisements for the Christmas play several of my co-worker's church puts on went up as soon as we moved into our new office this month.

I'm not offended, I fit into their assumption, but I feel awkward because they don't consider that their next new intern could not fit this mold. Why should that person have to duck their head down or speak up and (potentially) face a tense office situation? And why do I suspect it's similar in many of the other offices?

I disagree with calling it a "Holiday Tree" no matter how non-religious the tree has become. I don't think Hanukkah bushes are all that popular, though they might be. But it is a symptom of the wider exclusion that someone might face.

AlphaFrog · #4 12-21-2007, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I'm not offended, I fit into their assumption, but I feel awkward because they don't consider that their next new intern could not fit this mold. Why should that person have to duck their head down or speak up and (potentially) face a tense office situation? And why do I suspect it's similar in many of the other offices?

If non-Christians don't want to deal with Christmas, they're a little screwed. I mean, is it offensive for me to put Christmas lights on my house because my neighbor might be a JW or Atheist? I had a roommate who was a passionate Atheist, but she put up a Christmas tree and lights. (Yes, I know, weird.) I just don't know if anyone HATES Christianity/Christmas THAT MUCH that it would make them tense or offended.

33girl · #5 12-21-2007, 10:54 AM

Why does it have to have an official name anyway? Anyone who sees a pine tree with ornaments, tinsel and lights on it is going to call it a Christmas tree. Do they have the "holiday tree police" who fine people who use the C word?

Kevin · #6 12-21-2007, 11:37 AM

The government doesn't want to be sued for endorsing a religion.

AlphaFrog · #7 12-21-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

The government doesn't want to be sued for endorsing a religion.

O

RLY?

Kevin · #8 12-21-2007, 12:15 PM

no rly.

See City of Edmond v. Robinson, 68 F.3d 1226 (10th Cir., 1995).
http://www.law.emory.edu/10circuit/o...-6237.wpd.html

KSig RC · #9 12-21-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

no rly.

See City of Edmond v. Robinson, 68 F.3d 1226 (10th Cir., 1995).
http://www.law.emory.edu/10circuit/o...-6237.wpd.html

You messed it up.

C'mon guy - get with your Internet memes. I realize you're soon to enter the high-stakes world of family law, but you're not "Old Out of Touch Guy" yet, brotha!

GeekyPenguin · #10 12-21-2007, 01:08 PM

Oh, my crazy cheesy homeland. There are all sorts of fights going on about Christmas trees. In Green Bay there is a nativity set on the courthouse lawn, so somebody else erected a Wiccan display of some sort (I think a wreath with a five-pointed star) and people are all up in arms, so now somebody else wants to put up a Festivus pole...

skylark · #11 12-21-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

O

RLY?

While your point is a well-founded reminder that this country has always had christian roots, I don't think that the "in god we trust" references necessarily invoke the endorsement of any one religion. Every religion that I know of believes in god in some sort. However, I think it is a different thing to have a symbol of one religion's winter holiday without acknowledging others.

Our local courthouse has two christmas trees, and I am almost certain that the county paid to have them there (I personally watched county employees setting it up). When in a government building that is paid for by all taxpayers (not just christians) I personally am a fan of having a display that recognizes the cultural celebrations of all faiths. For instance, I find that having a display of a menorah, christmas tree, candle display, santa, etc. promotes a feeling that all beliefs and all holiday traditions are valuable and are part of the overall holiday spirit.

skylark · #12 12-21-2007, 01:34 PM

Slight hijack...

This thread reminds me of a clip of the new Huckabee holiday ad. Has anyone seen it aired? It features a bookcase that looks like a cross in the background (Huckabee says it was a coincidence) and Huckabee talking about the birth of christ, then wishing everyone a merry christmas. Huckabee was on the Today show and basically said people are too sensitive if they find the commercial offensive. Maybe he doesn't care about the Jewish voters out there?

Other politicians have holiday ads, like Obama. I'm pretty sure, though, that he says something like "happy holidays" if I remember the clip correctly.

I guess I would just hope that even though a majority of americans celebrate christmas, we know enough about the potential tyranny of majoritarian rule to acknowledge and respect the faiths of minorities as well, rather than telling them "suck it up -- you live in MY country and so you have to stand back and watch the government honor MY religion's holiday and don't even think about forcing me to acknowledge your inferior beliefs." That's at least the attitude I interpret from many "merry christmas" emphasizers these days.

Cardinal026 · #13 12-21-2007, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skylark

For instance, I find that having a display of a menorah, christmas tree, candle display, santa, etc. promotes a feeling that all beliefs and all holiday traditions are valuable and are part of the overall holiday spirit.

I like this also. I'm a government contractor, and work with a lot of federal government employees. For the two years I've been on my project, at Christmas our office is decorated by people who want to. There's mini Christmas trees, there are still menorahs up with blue battery-operated lights, and in the fall, our muslim co-workers invited us to stay after to feast for Ramadan. I like all the diversity and culture, and no one seems to be offended since if they felt their culture wasn't represented - they could just bring something in also.

sageofages · #14 12-21-2007, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

O

RLY?

Which god does this refer to?

Yours or Mine? Or my neighbors'?

Or My wiccan friends', my jewish friends', my hindu friends', my catholic friends', my methodist friends', my republican friends', my democratic friends', my libertarian friends'........

KSig RC · #15 12-21-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sageofages

Which god does this refer to?

Yours or Mine? Or my neighbors'?

Or My wiccan friends', my jewish friends', my hindu friends', my catholic friends', my methodist friends', my republican friends', my democratic friends', my libertarian friends'........

Well, most of your Jewish friends aren't allowed to write the word "G-d" so your point, while well intentioned, is laughably short-sighted.