T-shirt club

[DGTess]

I don't appreciate the psychoanalysis. It's one thing for you not to understand me. It's another to try to state my beliefs.

I said I no longer support the greek system in universities. They've become less than they should be.

Disappearing, keeping my mouth shut, not pointing out inconsistencies, not working to get people to think about what I see as hypocrisy, and playing rah-rah-cheerleader are not ways to make things happen. They're the way things have degenerated as they have. They're a (small) part of the problem - students who can't act as adults because they aren't permitted to. That translates into graduates (read: workers) who can't act as adults either.

I've never denied that I understand the differences between large houses and small, and between 30 years ago and now. I'm pointing out that the changes have not all been for the good, and that blanket rules are frequently ludicrous. What worked well for my chapter won't work for all. But I also refuse to believe that a six-week pledge period somehow gives you time to make a decision for life.

If you couldn't get to know all your sisters in five months, what makes you think someone can now in six weeks? If you had to memorize things about 100+ people just for the sake of memorization, you had a choice to make -- was it worth it to you? Obviously you thought so.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I said I no longer support the greek system in universities.

Where should the greek system be if not in a university setting? High schools? Corporations?

I really don't understand... Please elaborate and help me understand what you're suggesting.

[whittleschmegg]

Originally Posted by DGTess

They're a (small) part of the problem - students who can't act as adults because they aren't permitted to. That translates into graduates (read: workers) who can't act as adults either.

Parents and American culture don't allow children to grow up and be young adults. Most American teenagers are catered too bailed out of their problems and excuses are constantly made for their screw ups. How can you expect them in one or two years to understand what going to far is. It is just unrealistic to think that they can make these types of decisions.

For clarification I was hazed I had to do interviews and scavenger hunts and be put into line-ups and sometimes it did get out of control. I couldn't imagine if God forbid someone was killed or something had happened to a potential new member. I earned my letters I say that with confidence and I wouldn't want to go back and have it any other way, but when me and my pledge sisters became older sisters we took steps to make our program positive. It's not my fault that hazing is illegal look at yourself and people of your generation who abused their power and crossed the line one to many times.

Disclaimer: I DO NOT AND NEVER HAVE FELT HAZING WAS THE BEST WAY TO DO ANYTHING. AND BY NO MEANS DO I AGREE WITH THE ACTIONS OF THOSE WHO TAKE PART IN IT.

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by DGTess

If you couldn't get to know all your sisters in five months, what makes you think someone can now in six weeks? If you had to memorize things about 100+ people just for the sake of memorization, you had a choice to make -- was it worth it to you? Obviously you thought so.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that NA "obviously" thought it was "worth it" to do 120 interviews and memorize them. The post did state, and I quote: "Trust me, I would happily have lived without it." and "I had to wait to wear my letters too but that period of waiting (and "earning" them as some people just love to call it, which I call hooey on), really added nothing to the sum total of what I got out of my greek experience."

But I digress... that's for NA to clarify

NA -- good post

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by DGTess

I don't appreciate the psychoanalysis.

Questioners rarely enjoy being questioned.

Disappearing, keeping my mouth shut, not pointing out inconsistencies, not working to get people to think about what I see as hypocrisy, and playing rah-rah-cheerleader are not ways to make things happen.

Granted, but you're not proposing what could be re-integrated into TODAY's college climate in light of why current rules have been put in place; you're just complaining that things aren't how they used to be and why that's so wrong.

And your claim that you're just "pointing out inconsistencies" isn't quite reflective of the message you're sending --- you flat-out say in your blog that today's greek organizations aren't providing real leadership opportunities. And then you reduce it to questions of how asking greek members to vote for someone in a pageant or contest is considered leadership. That's just silly. And simplistic. And unfair to the community as a whole.

What about the women (and men) who are in huge chapters that also have a chapter house? Do you have any idea how many "real world" issues they have to deal with? Leases and laws and paying bills and maintenance ON TOP of all the internal organization stuff. Some of those chapters must have yearly budgets well over a million dollars. How can you demean the real experience those members are having by taking on that level of responsibility and leadership? And how can you overlook the need to protect the investment in that chapter, in that facility, in their relationship with the university and greek system, through real and effective risk management measures?

But I also refuse to believe that a six-week pledge period somehow gives you time to make a decision for life.

I've actually heard that it's more like 8 weeks normally, but tomato tomahto. And why is your opinion on this right more than someone else's? How long "should" it take and who gets to decide that? Did I know after 2 months of pledging that I for sure wanted to be in my sorority? Absolutely. Truth be told, I was sure sooner than that, but we still had to wait it out for the full 5 months. Your message seems to be that "intelligent" women shouldn't be "herded" and "forced" to make a lifelong decision after just 6 (or 8) weeks, but aren't you, on the flip-side questioning these women's intelligence and whether they're capable of making that decision for themselves? Who are you to tell them they're not ready to do so?

If you couldn't get to know all your sisters in five months, what makes you think someone can now in six weeks? If you had to memorize things about 100+ people just for the sake of memorization, you had a choice to make -- was it worth it to you? Obviously you thought so.

TexasPrincess already did a fine job of responding to this (and thanks, TP ). And doing the interviews had nothing to do with my "getting to know" anybody, it just was what it was, something we had to do because we were pledges. Just because I knew one sister was from Shippensburg and another one was from Philly didn't really tell me squat about "who" they were.

ETA: I have no idea if I did the split-quote thing correctly through this, so if it's a garbled mess, I apologize...

[adpiucf]

A great reason to belong to a "t-shirt club" --> today, hazing is illegal.

Fraternities and sororities are non-profit organizations that must follow the law. A collegiate member is not above the law.

So to those of you who break the law today, bravo. You are "real" men and women, without a doubt. It must be very nice to scoff at the laws that the rest of us have to follow.