Hazing

[amanda6035]

Originally Posted by BlueNYC2

wait...let me get this straight...dude was on line, dropped, snitched(b!tched), then became a member? yo, its one thing if you're a skater or paper...but at least you aint snitch/b!tch to get into the org. I dont care how one got in, whether its pledge/skate/paper, but to snitch and force your way in is not wats up in my book. THATS when i have no respect for you....

Originally Posted by Kevin

How else would we be able to stamp out the sort of behavior which could potentially threaten our organizations' existences? It takes a lot of courage to be a "snitch." Far more than it does to simply go along with whatever [illegal] program one's organization has put together. In most states, hazing is a crime. At a minimum, by "snitching," one is saving future generations from having to risk potential jail time/fines and blemished records.

I typically am not one to judge what other organizations are doing. NPHC least of all. But with all due respect, your attitude and the attitudes described by the individuals in the community described by PrettyBoy are pretty disturbing.

NPC organizations have by and large been successful eliminating hazing. NIC organizations have had success, but to a somewhat lesser extent. Are NPHC organizations having a more difficult time? Why?

I think i understand what BlueNYC is saying though....If you're going to snitch on someone, why would you still want to bully your way into the organization? If someone attempted to haze me, I'd snitch the crap out of them - but then I'd walk away. I wouldnt want to be in an organization that condones hazing. But from the sounds of it, this person snitched and then managed to be initiated anyway, even though nobody liked him. I would have been different if he snitched, and got respected and they still wanted him to Initiate. Of course - that's not the impression I got from the story. I got the impression that this person bullied their way into being initiated.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

I think i understand what BlueNYC is saying though....If you're going to snitch on someone, why would you still want to bully your way into the organization?

By informing your HQ, you're showing yourself to be a more loyal member than anyone directly violating their HQ's edicts are. As we always sway, our organizations are for life, not just for college. Why should you allow yourself to be robbed of this lifetime experience because some people were violating the rules and you called them on it?

That's hardly "bullying" your way in. That's showing that you have what it takes to make tough choices and then being accepted by an organization which should be grateful to have such a dedicated and loyal member -- someone who is willing to put what is right above what is convenient. The organization is lucky to have such a person.

If someone attempted to haze me, I'd snitch the crap out of them - but then I'd walk away. I wouldnt want to be in an organization that condones hazing

But that's the thing. No organization condones hazing. That chapters do it against their national policy is unfortunate. If the organization takes swift action and deals with those who were hazing, how could you possibly maintain that the organization supports or condones hazing?

But from the sounds of it, this person snitched and then managed to be initiated anyway, even though nobody liked him. I would have been different if he snitched, and got respected and they still wanted him to Initiate.

No one respects someone who turns them into the authorities for breaking the law. Who in that equation has the moral high ground though?

Of course - that's not the impression I got from the story. I got the impression that this person bullied their way into being initiated.

You say "bullied," I say "did the right thing."

[amanda6035]

Originally Posted by Kevin

By informing your HQ, you're showing yourself to be a more loyal member than anyone directly violating their HQ's edicts are. As we always sway, our organizations are for life, not just for college. Why should you allow yourself to be robbed of this lifetime experience because some people were violating the rules and you called them on it?

That's hardly "bullying" your way in. That's showing that you have what it takes to make tough choices and then being accepted by an organization which should be grateful to have such a dedicated and loyal member -- someone who is willing to put what is right above what is convenient. The organization is lucky to have such a person.



But that's the thing. No organization condones hazing. That chapters do it against their national policy is unfortunate. If the organization takes swift action and deals with those who were hazing, how could you possibly maintain that the organization supports or condones hazing?



No one respects someone who turns them into the authorities for breaking the law. Who in that equation has the moral high ground though?



You say "bullied," I say "did the right thing."

Yes, he did the right thing for snitching - but why on earth would he still want to join? That's the point of view I'm looking at it from. And why did these guys still initiate him if they werent going to respect him? Something about this story/situation doesnt make sense.....

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

Yes, he did the right thing for snitching - but why on earth would he still want to join? That's the point of view I'm looking at it from. And why did these guys still initiate him if they werent going to respect him? Something about this story/situation doesnt make sense.....

In NPHC orgs, it is stressed that membership is much more than the chapter.

They might not have had a choice in the matter.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

Yes, he did the right thing for snitching - but why on earth would he still want to join? That's the point of view I'm looking at it from. And why did these guys still initiate him if they werent going to respect him? Something about this story/situation doesnt make sense.....

What Senusret said is true for NIC organizations as well -- membership is bigger than just the chapter. It's for life, not for college. Doing the right thing isn't easy -- and it certainly shouldn't cost you your membership. I can't speak for another organization, but had this kid been a Sigma Nu, he would have in my eyes been more qualified for membership than anyone who stood by and did nothing while the chapter participated in illegal activity which could jeopardize the entire organization.

If I found out that my chapter (which I am a founder of ) was hazing, I'd personally see to it that they were shut down. My loyalty is to my national organization above all. I am a Sigma Nu first, a member of my chapter second.

I know others feel differently, but I think this kid did an incredibly courageous thing. Instead of the easy/popular route, he decided to do the right thing which resulted in him being a marked man wherever he went. I can only hope I'd have as much strength to do what is right if placed in a similar situation.

[ealymc]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What Senusret said is true for NIC organizations as well -- membership is bigger than just the chapter. It's for life, not for college. Doing the right thing isn't easy -- and it certainly shouldn't cost you your membership. I can't speak for another organization, but had this kid been a Sigma Nu, he would have in my eyes been more qualified for membership than anyone who stood by and did nothing while the chapter participated in illegal activity which could jeopardize the entire organization.

If I found out that my chapter (which I am a founder of ) was hazing, I'd personally see to it that they were shut down. My loyalty is to my national organization above all. I am a Sigma Nu first, a member of my chapter second.

I know others feel differently, but I think this kid did an incredibly courageous thing. Instead of the easy/popular route, he decided to do the right thing which resulted in him being a marked man wherever he went. I can only hope I'd have as much strength to do what is right if placed in a similar situation.

Ditto. That took some guts and he probably had days that he regretted doing it. I'm sure that if he feels what he did was right, he'll still make the most of his experience.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

I think i understand what BlueNYC is saying though....If you're going to snitch on someone, why would you still want to bully your way into the organization? If someone attempted to haze me, I'd snitch the crap out of them - but then I'd walk away. I wouldnt want to be in an organization that condones hazing. But from the sounds of it, this person snitched and then managed to be initiated anyway, even though nobody liked him. I would have been different if he snitched, and got respected and they still wanted him to Initiate. Of course - that's not the impression I got from the story. I got the impression that this person bullied their way into being initiated.

It's one thing to drop dime (snitch) for hazing, but to do it when you didn't even get a letter of acceptance, that's another thing and unacceptable. He's not a brother.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

It's one thing to drop dime (snitch) for hazing, but to do it when you didn't even get a letter of acceptance, that's another thing and unacceptable. He's not a brother.

That's the chapter's dumbness for pledging/hazing people prior to the vote. Selectivity apparently is a lost art. Stupid chapters allow people to bogart their way in.

Unless your organization has an administrative override (add-on) policy, the most solemn responsibility of chapters remains the selection of members. You can't have the OLD process under the NEW rules.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

That's the chapter's dumbness for pledging/hazing people prior to the vote. Selectivity apparently is a lost art. Stupid chapters allow people to bogart their way in.

Unless your organization has an administrative override (add-on) policy, the most solemn responsibility of chapters remains the selection of members. You can't have the OLD process under the NEW rules.

He was never selected.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

He was never selected.

Was he pledged, hazed, pre-pledged, or in any way contacted inappropriately prior to the vote? If you read what I said, I obviously understood that he was never selected. If he was contacted inappropriately prior to the vote, then of course he will have more footing when it comes to bogarting his was in.

Are we still referring to the dude you all didn't teach any secrets to?

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Was he pledged, hazed, pre-pledged, or in any way contacted inappropriately prior to the vote? If you read what I said, I obviously understood that he was never selected. If he was contacted inappropriately prior to the vote, then of course he will have more footing when it comes to bogarting his was in.

Are we still referring to the dude you all didn't teach any secrets to?

Same guy. I won't comment on rather he was pre-pledged, or hazed, but I will say this, he knew he didn't make the cut from the get go, but he wanted in, so he did what he had to do to attempt to get in. After everything was done and over, he had no respect from not only us, but from every glo on campus. His reason for leaving.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

I won't comment on rather he was pre-pledged, or hazed

So basically he was.

I refer back to my original statement:
That's the chapter's dumbness for pledging/hazing people prior to the vote.