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06-29-2007, 03:01 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Just to clarify:
We had a mandatory move-in list. Our bylaws say 1 year in the house, and if at mandatory move in time, chaper members would be reviewed by judiary board. Our advisor gave us the option to vote on it this spring. Our chapter chose not to execute the list. Most of the younger girls didn't seem to really process the amount of money this would add up to.
Our active chapter has a poor relationship with our house corp, and has for quite some time. A situation like this happened before about 5 years ago, but it wasn't this amount of empty spaces.
The town my school is in passed a law banning the zoning of any new greek houysing. There are only about 12 houses at a school with 18 fraternities and sororities. We do not want to lose this house. Even though it isn't ideal, if we lost it we would never get it back.
Our chapter has faced empty spots every year I've been in the chapter. (I'm a senior) When I lived in the house, we had one empty, but it has never been at this point.
I am monitoring this closely, as are other chapter members. Please keep posting. And that point about recruitment is an excellent idea.
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06-29-2007, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denimeans
Just to clarify:
We had a mandatory move-in list. Our bylaws say 1 year in the house, and if at mandatory move in time, chaper members would be reviewed by judiary board. Our advisor gave us the option to vote on it this spring. Our chapter chose not to execute the list. Most of the younger girls didn't seem to really process the amount of money this would add up to.
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Your advisor is beyond stupid. Why on earth did she have the power to tell you to vote whether or not to do this? It's in your bylaws, you have to follow it, unless you change the bylaw! Is she an alumna of your sorority?
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It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil
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06-29-2007, 03:52 PM
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You do have a house corp, right?
At this point, 20K in the hole is not good. Your president needs to send a message out to the sisters, stat-- We either fill this house or we will lose this house and we will never get another. We have 10 spots to fill and we will work with you to get you out of a signed lease so you aren't paying a penalty. 10 spots-- what's it going to be ladies?
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06-29-2007, 05:54 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 18,669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl
Your advisor is beyond stupid. Why on earth did she have the power to tell you to vote whether or not to do this? It's in your bylaws, you have to follow it, unless you change the bylaw! Is she an alumna of your sorority?
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I definitely agree with that. Advisers need to be aware of the concept that a fraternal organization is a business first. In fact, part of their job is to be more cognizant of that fact than they typically more inexperienced collegians.
I think your problems only start there though. It sounds like your house corp in this has been relatively silent. I personally cannot imagine a house corp which would allow the organization to be 20K in the hole and not be raising a whole bunch of hell with the actives. Needless to say, unless they are being more proactive than you're letting on (and given the situation, I can't possibly imagine this), they're not doing their jobs. They ought to move on voluntarily, agree to do their jobs, or be replaced.
A successful chapter often depends on successful and dedicated alums. In your chapters case, from what you're telling us, this is what y'all are lacking.
I don't know what I'd recommend at this point because I don't know how sororities work internally. If it were my organization, I'd see if the Pres. could place a discrete call to HQ (by discrete, I mean the alums don't need to know about this)... the Pres. needs to relay the situation to them to see if they can't get some consultants here to pull your your alums' heads out of their asses.
A caveat: I have said over and over that I don't know a damned thing about the inner workings of your group. If calling your HQ about this situation would in itself jeopardize your group's continual existence by putting HQ on notice that you're a financial risk, obviously, fix the problem yourself, do your best to pay down that debt, THEN call... if your HQ would be more likely to be supportive and helpful through this, call them ASAP.
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SN -SINCE 1869-
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S N E T T
Mu Tau 5, Central Oklahoma
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06-29-2007, 06:36 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denimeans
Just to clarify:
We had a mandatory move-in list. Our bylaws say 1 year in the house, and if at mandatory move in time, chaper members would be reviewed by judiary board. Our advisor gave us the option to vote on it this spring. Our chapter chose not to execute the list. Most of the younger girls didn't seem to really process the amount of money this would add up to.
Our active chapter has a poor relationship with our house corp, and has for quite some time. A situation like this happened before about 5 years ago, but it wasn't this amount of empty spaces.
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If your advisor knew of the financial difficulties of the chapter, it was not a good idea, IMO, for her to allow your chapter that option.
I think your Treasurer and her advisor need to go over the budget and plan a report for the entire chapter. Perhaps if the members actually see the breakdown of where their money is going, it will make them more aware of the situation. Make the members know they will feel the direct results of the money shortage - whether it means cutbacks in the food, social, recruitment, or other budgets or no updates and only necessary repairs to the chapter facility. It's the only way they will understand.
The House Corp and chapter also need to resolve their differences and learn to work together. See if chapter members are allowed to come to meetings (in some cases, certain chapter officers are actually ex-officio members) to know exactly what's going on and to bring the view of the chapter to the House Corp. If that won't work, then, in most cases, it's completely within the President's rights to notify a regional officer or your HQ of the situation and ask for assistance.
Quote:
Our chapter has faced empty spots every year I've been in the chapter. (I'm a senior) When I lived in the house, we had one empty, but it has never been at this point.
I am monitoring this closely, as are other chapter members. Please keep posting. And that point about recruitment is an excellent idea.
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Again, IMO, one or two open spots isn't necessarily a bad thing provided your chapter and House corp is financially solvent with those open spots. As I mentioned, having those open spots available for new members to move in right away after recruitment was often a selling point to PNMs, especially sophomores who maybe hadn't signed a lease and didn't want to live in the dorms.
Also, aside from "legitimate" excuses, is there any particular reason women want to live out? IME, the women wanting to move out early wanted the "freedoms" (booze, boys, etc..) that weren't allowed in the chapter facility. Provide a breakdown of the cost of living in the chapter facility with all amenities included and then provide a breakdown of living in an apartment and all the things the members will then be responsible for themselves (food, utilities, cleaning, etc...). Some women don't always realize how much they're actually getting by living in the chapter facility. And talk living in the chapter facility up! I lived in my house 3.5 years and had an absolute blast. No, communal living isn't always easy and it isn't always the best option for everyone, but it is a great experience and this is about the only time in your life you'll have/need that option.
__________________
It's gonna be a hootenanny.
Or maybe a jamboree.
Or possibly even a shindig or lollapalooza.
Perhaps it'll be a hootshinpaloozaree. I don't know.
Last edited by ISUKappa; 06-29-2007 at 06:41 PM.
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06-29-2007, 06:51 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,649
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Quote:
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Also, aside from "legitimate" excuses, is there any particular reason women want to live out?
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My parents wanted me to keep a single in the dorm so I would have a quiet place to study. My H and I feel the same way regarding our daughter remaining in the dorm vs. living in her house.
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....but some are more equal than others.
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06-29-2007, 11:53 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alum
My parents wanted me to keep a single in the dorm so I would have a quiet place to study. My H and I feel the same way regarding our daughter remaining in the dorm vs. living in her house.
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I'm sorry you feel that way... Maybe it's a difference in schools/systems? Also coming from a Midwestern campus... I lived 2 years in the dorms and 2 years in-house. It was far easier to ask my sisters to respect my study time than the random guy who happened to live a floor up from my dorm room. Our chapter house had a 24-hour quiet study room, a 'card room' that was great, and the dining room turned into study central during dead and finals week. Not to mention the plethora of quiet rooms on campus (library, student union, empty class rooms, lounges/commons in most buildings-upper floors were quietest). I truly felt part of the house when I moved in, not like some outsider that didn't really know what was happening. Everyone has different study habits. Finding study spaces is a part of living in any college community (chapter house, dorm, or apartment).
Especially if their corp. board is failing to support them very well, these sisters need to be tight, which means living together. Build your sisterhood - our greatest Fall Recruitment whilst I was there (ah... the good old days!  )was when we spent a good amount of time on getting to know each other and bonding - seeing our sisterhood, the PNMs wanted to be a part of that bond. Also a bonus: "Oh, your majoring in Elementary Ed? We have seven in the house!" "You're interested in Business Club? My roommate is President of that." etc... knowing what your sisters do helps create that connection with the PNM and your chapter. Always a good thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverRoses
Whatever you do, make sure that during recruitment, it looks like the house is full- so if you have 1 girl in a double- put a comforter or whatever on the spare bed so that it looks like 2 girls are there (especially during open house).
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I'll third that. If you have rooms that are completely or partially empty for one reason or another, decorate them. Some facilities, depending on the lighting, might be dark and intimidating to PNMs with shut doors... do everything you can to keep the facility open, welcoming, and looking like home... so there will be a few decisions for you there, too, depending on your facility. (...oh, and always put your name on anything you lend to an empty room...  )
Another thought... if you do have some vacancies, make certain your members don't convey "we're desperate to fill spaces so you can move in right away" ... make sure everyone is scripted with something to to effect of "sometimes we have a few spaces open in the Fall for NMs, and I think this semester we might" ...mentioning if sophomores have priority. You're avoiding two dangers: a) appearing as if you'll take any warm body (which you're not) and b) potentially promising every PNM they can for sure move in (which, I'm guessing if you hit quota, they can't).
Long Post! ...again, Good Luck!
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06-30-2007, 12:40 AM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 55
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I have had experience with a very large chapter and how they maintain the house being full. The entire chapter lives in the house. That's usually 120+ girls. Seniors get the option to live out if the house if full of Freshman, Sophmores, and Juniors. They also bought the house next to their large house and it also houses seniors.
Their rules are basically this:
1. Everyone lives in the house. That's it.
2. There are some exceptions: Medical reasons if documented by a physician, if the student still lives at home, or very extenuating cirucumstances that would best meet the needs of the sister and these are all submitted to house corporation who then meet and decide on each submission. The chapter president and one other representative are also on house corp so it's not just a bunch of old bitties sitting and deciding. I also believe RA's are excused for obvious reasons.
3. This is explained to the women as they go through rush. Since it is made clear to them at that time, there is usually little problem.
I think the important thing to do is to establish rules for your house, and unless there are specific situations that present themself, you need to follow them. They should not be open for discussion. Empty beds (as you've discovered) can seriously mess up chapter operation and the whole chapter ends up paying (literally and figuratively) for it.
For now, I think the best thing is to do what many others on here have suggested and that's try to re-establish the rules that sound like they were in place, pay for women to break their lease, and get the beds filled.
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"To crusade for justice, to seek the truth and defend it always"
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DZRose
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07-12-2007, 11:39 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,190
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My chapter house held 20 girls, and all 7 officers had to live in. So that left only 13 beds left to fill.
We had a one year live in requirement. We are actually lucky because there are a few chapters on my campus that have 2 year live-in requirments.
The only exceptions were:
*documented medical reasons
*being an RA
*owning a home
. We make it crystal clear during recruitment that you do need to live there for a year. We never really had a problem filling it because everybody knew that you had to live there. There was, however, a mandatory move-in list prepared just in case we ever did.
You just have to stick to your policy. If girls come into the chapter knowing that if they don't move in, no consequences will follow, then they won't.
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"Remember that apathy has no place in our Sorority." - Kelly Jo Karnes, Pi
Lakers Nation.
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06-30-2007, 12:40 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alum
My parents wanted me to keep a single in the dorm so I would have a quiet place to study. My H and I feel the same way regarding our daughter remaining in the dorm vs. living in her house.
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I feel the same way. My parents did, too...would've let me live in sorority housing, which I did at first until they saw how much my grades improved when I lived by myself. Some people just aren't good at distractions and some aren't good at time management, so the occasional chaos of sorority housing can really have an impact on studies.
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06-30-2007, 02:22 PM
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GreekChat Member
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alum
My parents wanted me to keep a single in the dorm so I would have a quiet place to study. My H and I feel the same way regarding our daughter remaining in the dorm vs. living in her house.
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Honestly, if I were on a House Corp that had a mandatory live-in rule and the chapter facility was not at capacity, this excuse would simply not be valid. The member could buy out her contract, and we've had women do that, but there are plenty of alternatives for quiet study places outside of the chapter facility.
__________________
It's gonna be a hootenanny.
Or maybe a jamboree.
Or possibly even a shindig or lollapalooza.
Perhaps it'll be a hootshinpaloozaree. I don't know.
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07-02-2007, 11:58 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Learning how to skateboard.
Posts: 330
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There are a lot of other factors that could be contributing to the HCB's deficit in addition to empty beds...has your chapter considered how costs can be cut? Your house manager and at least one or two other exec officers should be attending HCB meetings and be knowledgeable about about what it costs to operate your house: mortgage or rent payments due monthly, staff (cooks, housekeepers, gardeners, HD) and utilities usually take the most financial resources. If you have a mortgage or rent to pay you can't do anything about that, but you might be able to cut your expenses by reducing staff hours (maybe only having a cook 4 days a week instead of 5) etc. or....I hate to say it, but members might have to do more housekeeping themselves. (That's when you learn to appreciate your mom!) Also you would be amazed at what happens to the utility bill when people simply turn things off when they leave the room!
Good luck to you and let us know how your chapter works through this!
__________________
Gamma Phi Beta
May every sunrise hold more promise, every moonrise hold more peace.
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07-02-2007, 07:54 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: ILL-INI
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Does your chapter have a current out-of-house fee? Above and beyond dues, you should have this fee, which acts as a deterrent to anyone who thinks they will save money by moving out. You can let them eat at the house twice per week if it makes them feel better about paying it, because it should cost less to provide meals than you take in from the fee.
(As an aside, it was $250/semester in my chapter, but I always thought it should be $250/semester your freshman year, and then $400 - $50 * number of semesters you lived in the house. So if you lived in sophomore and junior year, you would then pay $100 less per semester than girls who only lived in for one year)
Also, you should lay out the guidelines for living out as clearly as possible, so as not to put too much power in the hands of your house corp. I suggest the following as valid reasons:
1) Medical (with specific doctor's note)
2) Off-campus co-op/study abroad/student teaching/field study
3) RA
4) Marriage
5) Accessibility (almost like medical, but if you had a sister in a wheel chair and no ground-level rooms, you wouldn't make her go to the trouble of getting a doctor's note)
6) Living at home with parents
Once you take women excused for one of these reasons out of the pool, you should rank them in some manner (attendance points? GPA? number of semesters already lived in?), count from the bottom, draw a line, and make the women below the line live in no matter what.
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07-12-2007, 11:59 AM
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Location: Hotel Oceanview
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISUKappa
Honestly, if I were on a House Corp that had a mandatory live-in rule and the chapter facility was not at capacity, this excuse would simply not be valid. The member could buy out her contract, and we've had women do that, but there are plenty of alternatives for quiet study places outside of the chapter facility.
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My grades actually went UP when I moved into the sorority house, as the library was less than a block away and it was much easier to go there and study. The dorm I'd been living in was full of fraternity and sorority members and athletes, and across from the student center - way too much temptation.
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It is all 33girl's fault. ~DrPhil
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