White men in NPHC

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

You may have a narrow understanding of what "understanding what it is to be black" means.

To many, that means understanding our rich history and all those things that go into the uniqueness of the African diasporic cultures. Also understanding the diversity of experiences in the cultures. You don't have to be of the African diaspora to grasp this and being of the African diaspora doesn't mean that you grasp it. However, more often than not, I encounter whites (since we're talking about whites in the NPHC) who reduce "black" to oppression and discrimination or music and sports.

I think my understanding of "understanding what it is to be black" is basically what you're talking about here. Anything that can be learned through education, should be. When I say that I can't truly understand what's is like to be black it is because I cannot live a second life where I actually experience being black. While currently I am not completely, or even sufficiently, educated on these things I do strive to become more so.

So, NO, you can not understand the goals of organizations that serve the larger society through a focus on the black communities without understanding what it is to be black.

As I mention above, the difference I refer to is in the actual experience of being black. And that's what I mean when I say a white person can never achieve that.

No, that's not the purpose. Motives are always questioned, regardless of the race of the person. And we always have to prove ourselves. Not only as members based on having a membership number but as members based on living out our lifetime commitment.

I understand that. I guess I was thinking on more of a casual meeting or perhaps in a situation where it is obvious that the soror, regardless of her color, is dedicated because of her actions. But that's fair.

Originally Posted by Reds6

I don't think I stated the website expressed a view on blackness or qualifications. My opinion is that of my own. I am not an official spokesperson of the organization so I can comment on her stance nor would I.

I'm not really speaking about the organizations as a whole

I just find it curious why a non-person of color would want to join a BGLO that focuses on issues that affect people of color namely Black people and our community. I truly think that I view the responsibility to my community as a duty and I personally know the dire need to uplift my community. It's not something I opened a book to learn but something I live and live with everyday. I don't see a white member having the same level of commitment, passion, and level of responsibility to my people as I.

If you took too members who are equally active, but one is white and one is black you see the white one as being less committed? Or is this only a personal comparison? After DSTChaos' comment about all members being required to continually prove their commitment, I understand that concept, however expecting one to prove more based on the color of her skin? I don't get that on a fundamental level.

Regarding the respect issue I think I stated I would not disrespect a white member, I just simply wouldn't vote for a white candidate. But going back to the original question of the thread. If you are a white member of a BGLO, you have to expect that some aren't going to be happy with your choice.

And I find that unfortunate.

I'm not sure how my statement is bias. I think it's a fact that my experience as a black woman is different than that of a white woman. I don't care how liberal, so called color blind one may claim to be, you truly can't understand the struggle and beauty of my people. We may have similar issues regarding women's right for example, but join the Women's league.

[/QUOTE]
Yes, your experience is almost certainly different, but I take exception to the fact that assumptions are made based soley on the skin color of the applicant no matter her other qualities.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I think my understanding of "understanding what it is to be black" is basically what you're talking about here. Anything that can be learned through education, should be. When I say that I can't truly understand what's is like to be black it is because I cannot live a second life where I actually experience being black. While currently I am not completely, or even sufficiently, educated on these things I do strive to become more so.

I see. But even after becoming educated on such things, that doesn't mean you have it in your heart to devote a lifetime commitment to such things. That applies to any organization with a particular type of interest and philanthropy-base.

It's easy to read about things or even see things in passing, but to choose (or be forced) to experience them directly or indirectly is another matter. Many nonblacks have only a passing understanding or concern for things that can be considered in blacks' histories and experiences. They are nonblack members of a BGLO in one setting and switch up completely as soon as they take off their 'nalia and get around other nonblacks.

If starang21 actually hung with other nonblacks, he might've been like that too. Then I'd have to leave him.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Also remember that we are individuals typing. We don't express the sentiment of anyone but ourselves.

I've said that all along

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I see. But even after becoming educated on such things, that doesn't mean you have it in your heart to devote a lifetime commitment to such things. That applies to any organization with a particular type of interest and philanthropy-base.

Quite true, my interest is more of an academic one. But I'm also not interested in joining an NPHC sorority. (No offense you know )

If starang21 actually hung with other nonblacks, he might've been like that too. Then I'd have to leave him.

No, that would be sad. Don't do that!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Quite true, my interest is more of an academic one. But I'm also not interested in joining an NPHC sorority. (No offense you know )

None taken.

See, academic interests are cool because we all have them. My research interests include the black community and the black church. But there's often (not always) a difference between when I study the black community versus a white person coming in to study the black community. There's historical and contemporary antagonism in that. It can make people feel like subjects who are being scrutinized and even used for something that doesn't fit a communal goal. That's how some black people feel when they vote whites into our organizations.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

None taken.

See, academic interests are cool because we all have them. My research interests include the black community and the black church. But there's often (not always) a difference between when I study the black community versus a white person coming in to study the black community. There's historical and contemporary antagonism in that. It can make people feel like subjects who are being scrutinized and even used for something that doesn't fit a communal goal. That's how some black people feel when they vote whites into our organizations.

I can understand that, just that I would hope each candidate is voted on by each member on their individual merits, not by the color of their skin.

I was fortunate enough to take a class on African-American Psychology. Big eye-opener to me. When I talked about it to other friends they were like... "and how is that different from everyone else's psychology?" Got me really looking at how everything from psychological theories to every day assumptions are based on white males and studies using white male college students. (Although due to the number of females in psychology who are often required to participate in studies, that's changing a bit)

[Reds6]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I can understand that, just that I would hope each candidate is voted on by each member on their individual merits, not by the color of their skin.

I was fortunate enough to take a class on African-American Psychology. Big eye-opener to me. When I talked about it to other friends they were like... "and how is that different from everyone else's psychology?" Got me really looking at how everything from psychological theories to every day assumptions are based on white males and studies using white male college students. (Although due to the number of females in psychology who are often required to participate in studies, that's changing a bit)

I get judge by the color of my skin everyday and I deal with it. Again I'm 1 vote and if I met a White Delta, I wouldn't disrespect her. I don't get why non-whites want to join NPC organizations, but if that's their choice cool. But I don't get offend when those members also wonder why a person of color would want to join an organization that historically didn't want them. Nor would I get offended if a historically Jewish organization wondered why a Christian would join its ranks and would vote no. I just chalk it up to be attempting to maintain the integrity of the historically purpose of the organization.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Reds6

I get judge by the color of my skin everyday and I deal with it. Again I'm 1 vote and if I met a White Delta, I wouldn't disrespect her. I don't get why non-whites want to join NPC organizations, but if that's their choice cool. But I don't get offend when those members also wonder why a person of color would want to join an organization that historically didn't want them. Nor would I get offended if a historically Jewish organization wondered why a Christian would join its ranks and would vote no. I just chalk it up to be attempting to maintain the integrity of the historically purpose of the organization.

I just think that judging people based on the color of their skin is a behavior to terminate not to propogate. Also there's a difference with NPC groups in that no matter our historical founding we're pretty much open to everyone and Christians do join historically Jewish organizations every day.. ok well every Rush. THe important part is whether one can uphold the values of the organization. I do not deny we have racist members, but I wouldn't hold my tongue then either

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I was fortunate enough to take a class on African-American Psychology. Big eye-opener to me. When I talked about it to other friends they were like... "and how is that different from everyone else's psychology?" Got me really looking at how everything from psychological theories to every day assumptions are based on white males and studies using white male college students. (Although due to the number of females in psychology who are often required to participate in studies, that's changing a bit)

Which is a HUGE critique that feminist scholars and race scholars have been making for years.

Folks are correct in that "African American psychology" isn't inherently different than everyone else's. But what your class was about was probably more "social psychology" which delves into how our surroundings influence us cognitively, cultural expectations, and meanings. And how the cognitive, expectations, and meanings impacts our surroundings.