what do i have to give back?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Honestly, if I ran the NPC Greek world, I think I would do things more like the NPHC in a lot of ways. (You all don’t seem to do “re-structuring” of chapters to increase numbers; it’s understood as desirable (and expected) to stay active in the group your whole life on every level, and you don’t have chapters who have policies about rejecting some affiliates, as far as I know, just to name a few of the things that I admire.)

A lot of NPHC chapters don't have housing either. That makes a big difference in the way things are run.

I know what you are saying and I agree to a point, but if put into practice, it would surely kill off more than a few NPC groups. Keep in mind there are only 4 NPHC sororities.

[Buttonz]

Originally Posted by tld221

not that active members would disclose this to NMs, but dont "gifts" to NMs tend to come out of NM fees?

Not by us. The only thing that came out of NM fees were programs ran specifically for the NMs, NM pins, manuals, etc.

Originally Posted by 1908Revelations

I guess it is hard for me to understand since we do not get ANYTHING until after we are members.

Neither did we. We got a ton of gifts after initiation from our big, president and NME but that was the first time we ever got anything big. We would get something small (usually a big/lil shot glass, candle or something along those lines) on Big Sis/Lil Sis night, and that never had letters on it. We weren't allowed to buy anything with letters on it until after initiation either, and that was the way that I liked it.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by 33girl

A lot of NPHC chapters don't have housing either. That makes a big difference in the way things are run.

i can kinda see your point... but which aspect of "the way things are run" are you speaking on? re: housing i think of "oh, NPC orgs will want to recruit as many to fill the house." now im sure that's not the primary reason why NPC recruits and rushes on a much larger scale than NPHC (and i hope not, cause while thte bills gotta get paid, that is LAME), so maybe you can elaborate? (without turning into an NPC vs. NPHC thread cause we've got enough of those)

Originally Posted by 33girl

I know what you are saying and I agree to a point, but if put into practice, it would surely kill off more than a few NPC groups. Keep in mind there are only 4 NPHC sororities.

do you mean size-wise or popularity-wise?

also, tell me if this is too big of an assumption, but does telling a PNM that they are a member from bid day forward bring more appeal to a rushee vs. saying "you have no rights to our letters until initiation?" and i know THIS discussion has been had before, but (NPHC aside) i think a clearer boundary would lessen these scenarios.

[cuteASAbug]

Originally Posted by tld221

also, tell me if this is too big of an assumption, but does telling a PNM that they are a member from bid day forward bring more appeal to a rushee vs. saying "you have no rights to our letters until initiation?" and i know THIS discussion has been had before, but (NPHC aside) i think a clearer boundary would lessen these scenarios.

NPC sororities view recruitment as a 24/7/365 approach so part of the appeal of telling PNM's that they are members after bid day is that their friends will see them participating in sorority activities and wearing letters and will see the amount of fun that the new members are having and will want to join as a result of that.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by cuteASAbug

NPC sororities view recruitment as a 24/7/365 approach so part of the appeal of telling PNM's that they are members after bid day is that their friends will see them participating in sorority activities and wearing letters and will see the amount of fun that the new members are having and will want to join as a result of that.

recruitment for ALL greek orgs are 24/7, whether it is programs/events held or merely eating lunch with your sisters in the caf. and i can understand people seeing their friends with letters and saying "oh thats cool, maybe i should join." but we all know you dont need to wear letters to represent your org. especially if you JUST joined.

i compare it to being an athlete who gets a medal BEFORE they finish competing. who knows what they will place, if at all. you get the perks of saying "i'm a gold/silver/bronze medalist in _________" before you actually did it. i just feel like having the rights to letters that early on gives less of an "i earned these letters" mentality. unless such doesnt exist within NPC - is that right?

[susan314]

Originally Posted by tld221

recruitment for ALL greek orgs are 24/7, whether it is programs/events held or merely eating lunch with your sisters in the caf. and i can understand people seeing their friends with letters and saying "oh thats cool, maybe i should join." but we all know you dont need to wear letters to represent your org. especially if you JUST joined.

i compare it to being an athlete who gets a medal BEFORE they finish competing. who knows what they will place, if at all. you get the perks of saying "i'm a gold/silver/bronze medalist in _________" before you actually did it. i just feel like having the rights to letters that early on gives less of an "i earned these letters" mentality. unless such doesnt exist within NPC - is that right?

When I initiated into my NPC group in 1992, we were not permitted to wear letters during our pledge period. We could wear the words spelled out (i.e. - Alpha Gam or Alpha Gamma Delta), but not the Greek letters.

Things changed at some point around the time I was graduating. NPC groups (or at least the decision makers) took the stance that not allowing new members to wear the Greek letters was a form of hazing. This was also around the same time where the term "new member" vs. "pledge" was starting to be implemented. Therefore, in my own chapter and in other groups on our campus, new members were permitted to wear the Greek letters.

At the time, I wasn't terribly fond of the change. (After all, its human nature to resist change!) However, now that I reflect on it with a few more years perspective...the reason I respected my organization and wanted to uphold the standards of membership as a pledge wasn't to earn the opportunity to wear the letters. It was because I respected my sisters, our history (both on an individual chapter level and on the International level), our Purpose. Not being permitted to wear the Greek letters really didn't have much bearing on my actions one way or the other.

The meaning and symbolism of the Greek letters is explained to us at Initiation, and that's the important part. Anyone can walk into a Greek store and buy a lettered item, or obtain it by other purposes. (As evidenced by the fact that there was an old man who was frequently spotted picking through dumpsters at my campus, and he always wore a Sigma Delta Tau hat. Certainly the Sigma Delta Tau pledges at our campus had more of a right to wear their letters than he did. )

I personally found it more meaningful to learn all of the secret meanings of the symbols and letters at initiation, than finally being able to wear a lettered sweatshirt. (Again, this is after 15 years perspective since initiating - as I mentioned, I griped along with everyone else when the changes started happening. )

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by susan314

When I initiated into my NPC group in 1992, we were not permitted to wear letters during our pledge period. We could wear the words spelled out (i.e. - Alpha Gam or Alpha Gamma Delta), but not the Greek letters.

Things changed at some point around the time I was graduating. NPC groups (or at least the decision makers) took the stance that not allowing new members to wear the Greek letters was a form of hazing. This was also around the same time where the term "new member" vs. "pledge" was starting to be implemented. Therefore, in my own chapter and in other groups on our campus, new members were permitted to wear the Greek letters.

At the time, I wasn't terribly fond of the change. (After all, its human nature to resist change!) However, now that I reflect on it with a few more years perspective...the reason I respected my organization and wanted to uphold the standards of membership as a pledge wasn't to earn the opportunity to wear the letters. It was because I respected my sisters, our history (both on an individual chapter level and on the International level), our Purpose. Not being permitted to wear the Greek letters really didn't have much bearing on my actions one way or the other.

I personally found it more meaningful to learn all of the secret meanings of the symbols and letters at initiation, than finally being able to wear a lettered sweatshirt. (Again, this is after 15 years perspective since initiating - as I mentioned, I griped along with everyone else when the changes started happening. )

See we were permitted, but discouraged not to. This was due to chapter tradition. I'll probably have to explain this a little. In my chapter, we have two 'families'. Your big/lil family and your mom/daughter family (since changed to sigma/kappa). You get your big right after pledging in and she's there through the whole pledging process. Our mom/daughter is like everyone else's big/lil in a way. You don't find out who your mom is until I-week. It's your mom who gives you your first letters. So we were told that if we want to go out and buy lettered stuff, go ahead, but it would kind of be wrecking tradition and the surprise on I-week. Naturally none of us went crazy and we all waited.

Actually I was told that I couldn't even use the greek letters in my AIM profile or anything like that. My big was the chapter president and she asked why all our letters were disappearing from our profiles. I told her and she was livid and said if we wanted to use them we could because we were members now.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by tld221

ido you mean size-wise or popularity-wise?

also, tell me if this is too big of an assumption, but does telling a PNM that they are a member from bid day forward bring more appeal to a rushee vs. saying "you have no rights to our letters until initiation?" and i know THIS discussion has been had before, but (NPHC aside) i think a clearer boundary would lessen these scenarios.

I've had more caffeine now, so maybe I'll make more sense. (not a guarantee)

NPHC aspirants research the groups and choose to pursue membership in the one they feel the most connection with. There are 4 NPHC groups. If NPC went about acquiring new members in the same way, can you imagine researching all 26 groups in the same manner? It seems like it would turn into a contest among the NPCs as to who had the most name recognition, and that's who would survive. I know not all the NPHCs are the same size, but I also have gotten the impression that the average NPHC rushee has at least HEARD of all the groups.

As to your second question - I think people don't value as much what is given too easily. I'm not talking about letter sweatshirts, I'm talking about membership in general.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I've had more caffeine now, so maybe I'll make more sense. (not a guarantee)

NPHC aspirants research the groups and choose to pursue membership in the one they feel the most connection with. There are 4 NPHC groups. If NPC went about acquiring new members in the same way, can you imagine researching all 26 groups in the same manner? It seems like it would turn into a contest among the NPCs as to who had the most name recognition, and that's who would survive. I know not all the NPHCs are the same size, but I also have gotten the impression that the average NPHC rushee has at least HEARD of all the groups.

As to your second question - I think people don't value as much what is given too easily. I'm not talking about letter sweatshirts, I'm talking about membership in general.

girl that caffeine is the truth, cause that makes total sense - the big orgs will get bigger, the smaller orgs will get smaller. and trust, NPHC has its share of 'name recognition' as well. thx!

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by 33girl

A lot of NPHC chapters don't have housing either. That makes a big difference in the way things are run.

My undergrad chapter had housing for a considerable period of our history on campus. We ran things regarding membership/recruitment the same when we didn't have the house as when we did. What exactly would be different, and why?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

My undergrad chapter had housing for a considerable period of our history on campus. We ran things regarding membership/recruitment the same when we didn't have the house as when we did. What exactly would be different, and why?

How big was your house, and how many (average) were in your chapter? More to the point - if this isn't divulging too much - how many women did you have wanting to join?

Unfortunately, sometimes NPC & NIC rush becomes about filling the house because the campus culture demands you have a house that holds 70 or however many people.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by 33girl

How big was your house, and how many (average) were in your chapter? More to the point - if this isn't divulging too much - how many women did you have wanting to join?

Unfortunately, sometimes NPC & NIC rush becomes about filling the house because the campus culture demands you have a house that holds 70 or however many people.

i hate that im monopolizing on this thread, but i really am interested!!

is it "campus culture" as in expectations (ie. correlation between reputation and how much you filled your house that year) or a need to fill the house because of some university sanctions (ie. if the house isn't full, you lose it?)

[1908Revelations]

Originally Posted by tld221

i hate that im monopolizing on this thread, but i really am interested!!

You are not monopolizing...I'm interested too.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by tld221

i hate that im monopolizing on this thread, but i really am interested!!

is it "campus culture" as in expectations (ie. correlation between reputation and how much you filled your house that year) or a need to fill the house because of some university sanctions (ie. if the house isn't full, you lose it?)

Yes and yes. I'm going to opt out at this point as our campus really didn't have those type houses and someone's who did can explain better.

[cuteASAbug]

Originally Posted by tld221

i hate that im monopolizing on this thread, but i really am interested!!

is it "campus culture" as in expectations (ie. correlation between reputation and how much you filled your house that year) or a need to fill the house because of some university sanctions (ie. if the house isn't full, you lose it?)

I think that finance plays a large role when it comes to housing. I recently met some ASA alumnae from a different chapter who told me that because their chapter didn't have live in requirements for members, it made their dues really high because they had to cover the cost of the unused rooms.