South vs. North?

[macallan25]

[shinerbock]

Hey mac, what kind of irons do you have.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Hey mac, what kind of irons do you have.

Just got a set of Titleist 735CM's. Golf club designs are so screwed up right now...but I really like the feel of them. They had a club testing day at the Country Club over Easter Weekend and I hit them a few times. Really like the feel and they have less weight on the heel....which I like.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Just got a set of Titleist 735CM's. Golf club designs are so screwed up right now...but I really like the feel of them. They had a club testing day at the Country Club over Easter Weekend and I hit them a few times. Really like the feel and they have less weight on the heel....which I like.

Yeah I'm probably going to get the 755's. I'm coming off a hiatus, and I think they'll give me enough playability to improve without being completely unforgiving.

[IvySpice]

So there should be no Black History Month?

Learning and preserving history is a different thing from taking "pride" in your association with the past. If the people you are taking "pride" in did shameful things as well as good things, you should feel that shame to the same extent you feel pride. But that's not what I see people doing. I hear people linking themselves to honor, and sacrifice, and other noble qualities their ancestors had, but when it comes to filthy, hateful things their ancestors did, the same people say, well, they were just doing what was typical in their historical context, and I'm not responsible for the things they did, so I am not really associated with the filth and hate. Well, how can you be linked to one and not the other?

If you're German, you can learn and preserve of all the great things Germany and Germans have done throughout history. But if you tell me you feel personally proud of your association with Beethoven, you should also feel personally ashamed of your association with Goebbels. To pretend that your heritage is all about the good stuff is to sanitize history. It's dishonest.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by IvySpice

Learning and preserving history is a different thing from taking "pride" in your association with the past. If the people you are taking "pride" in did shameful things as well as good things, you should feel that shame to the same extent you feel pride. But that's not what I see people doing. I hear people linking themselves to honor, and sacrifice, and other noble qualities their ancestors had, but when it comes to filthy, hateful things their ancestors did, the same people say, well, they were just doing what was typical in their historical context, and I'm not responsible for the things they did, so I am not really associated with the filth and hate. Well, how can you be linked to one and not the other?

If you're German, you can learn and preserve of all the great things Germany and Germans have done throughout history. But if you tell me you feel personally proud of your association with Beethoven, you should also feel personally ashamed of your association with Goebbels. To pretend that your heritage is all about the good stuff is to sanitize history. It's dishonest.

But in some ways, doesn't getting rid of all the confederate symbols sanitize history as well? That's one of the things about the Georgia flag thing that seemed especially dumb. As long as the flag was what it was, we had to remember why. Changing it can be seen as progress, but it also allows people to forget about why the flag was changed in 56.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

But in some ways, doesn't getting rid of all the confederate symbols sanitize history as well? That's one of the things about the Georgia flag thing that seemed especially dumb. As long as the flag was what it was, we had to remember why. Changing it can be seen as progress, but it also allows people to forget about why the flag was changed in 56.

Not really...it could be viewed the same as a swastika. No one likes to see those plastered all over the place but no one has ever forgotten the horrors of world war 2 and nazi Germany. Not that I'm comparing the confederate flag to Hitler, it's apples and oranges, but you get what I mean.
People only forget when you allow them to forget.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by IvySpice

Learning and preserving history is a different thing from taking "pride" in your association with the past. If the people you are taking "pride" in did shameful things as well as good things, you should feel that shame to the same extent you feel pride. But that's not what I see people doing. I hear people linking themselves to honor, and sacrifice, and other noble qualities their ancestors had, but when it comes to filthy, hateful things their ancestors did, the same people say, well, they were just doing what was typical in their historical context, and I'm not responsible for the things they did, so I am not really associated with the filth and hate. Well, how can you be linked to one and not the other?

If you're German, you can learn and preserve of all the great things Germany and Germans have done throughout history. But if you tell me you feel personally proud of your association with Beethoven, you should also feel personally ashamed of your association with Goebbels. To pretend that your heritage is all about the good stuff is to sanitize history. It's dishonest.

Then to be fair Black History month should include less than noble examples as well.

I use that because the previous poster did...but that same principle would certainly change any sort of pride festival, month, rally...

[SWTXBelle]

Ivyspice, it is possible to remember the mistakes of the past without having to celebrate them. You don't get on the phone and call everyone in your family when your child loses a soccer game or gets a bad grade, do you? But you do when they do something worthy of celebration. So too with a society's history. While you want to remember and learn from mistakes, it is the acomplishments which should be the primary focus. Should MLK be remembered as a great leader, or an adulterous plagerist? According to you, we should focus just as much on his faults as his acomplishments. I have to ask - why? He was a man, and as such, imperfect. But his ideas are how he distinguished himself -and so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it is his ideas and acomplishments which should be remembered on his holiday, not his failings.
As far as history goes, the sanitizing often conisists of the victors totally demonizing the enemy, instead of objectively studying what led to the conflict and trying to learn from it. This is true for just about any war, including dare I say the current conflict.
Most people who want me to feel guilty for slavery don't have a clue as to the actual history of the pre-War U.S.A. I do, and I don't have any reason to feel guilty. My ancestors owned slaves at a time when it was an accepted practice. Slavery was wrong, it was abolished, and that's that. More important than trying to make me feel guilty about the way society was 150 years ago is to focus on what can be done TODAY.
Instead of castigating me for the institutuion of slavery, how about focusing that energy on anger at the way the largely black population of New Orleans and the rest of the Gulf Coast have been treated by the Federal government? You want to tell me that had a similar tragedy happened in, oh, New York, we would have the same shameful treatment?That same Federal government that my ancestors thought were overstepping their bounds - near as I can tell, they were right to be worried then, and I'm worried now!

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Wow. Where would you get a dress for something like that? Some of them look like debutante type dresses, but most of those look straight out of a movie set.

I guess I don't think much of the whole north versus south thing. I grew up in the midwest but most of my Dad's family is in the south (Alabama, Georgia, and the Florida Panhandle-which my relatives call "LA"- lower Alabama). I never considered myself any better or worse than my "southern" relatives.

[AlexMack]

I have a confession. When we did our Civil War day in 8th grade, they split us up into the Union and the Confederacy. We got hats to wear. I wanted to be confederacy. You guys had way better food! I got stuck in with the Union.
See Rifles for Waitey (sp?) as a reference.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

I guess I don't think much of the whole north versus south thing. I grew up in the midwest but most of my Dad's family is in the south (Alabama, Georgia, and the Florida Panhandle-which my relatives call "LA"- lower Alabama). I never considered myself any better or worse than my "southern" relatives.

Don't worry, neither do I, and I've grown up/went to school/lived in New England my whole life. If you look on this board, you'll see criticisms come on both sides (North criticizing South, South criticizing North), so I don't think anyone can say that one side is more guilty than the other.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Don't worry, neither do I, and I've grown up/went to school/lived in New England my whole life. If you look on this board, you'll see criticisms come on both sides (North criticizing South, South criticizing North), so I don't think anyone can say that one side is more guilty than the other.

I sincerely doubt that there would be ANY country or group of people who claim a perfectly moral high ground. And as a genealogist, I feel that everyone should have pride in their ancestory to the extent that it's DNA, not something the descendant did. I had ancestors on both sides - it would be silly for me to claim one over the other.

BTW, Love your signature!

[shinerbock]

LA= lower alabama, my family does this too.

[IvySpice]

My ancestors owned slaves at a time when it was an accepted practice. Slavery was wrong, it was abolished, and that's that. More important than trying to make me feel guilty about the way society was 150 years ago is to focus on what can be done TODAY.

But they sacrificed to protect their land at a time when THAT was an accepted practice. They were chivalrous at a time when THAT was an accepted practice. Are you proud of that? How come there's no "that's that" about their sacrifice and chivalry?

Re shameful parts of MLK's life, yes, we should try to understand the whole picture of an individual if we're doing a biographical analysis. If you're studying the whole civil rights movement, though, MLK's private life really didn't play much of a role, especially since it wasn't publicized at the time. It's a very poor comparison to the role of slavery in the antebellum South (foundation of the economy, greatest concentration of wealth, preserved permanently in the Confederate Constitution, etc.).