South vs. North?

SWTXBelle · #1 04-07-2007, 03:02 PM

And now for something completely different . . .

What consititutes the north, the mid-west and the west in your mind? I'd especially like to hear from those who consider themselves from those regions. And, what do you think distinguishes your region? (Not the geographical!)

shinerbock · #2 04-07-2007, 03:12 PM

Downtown old Marietta= southern

The vast majority of Marietta= extremely not-southern

NUBlue&Blue · #3 04-07-2007, 03:18 PM

Duh, shinerbock. Unless you live IN Marietta, you just have a Marietta mailing address.

UGAalum94 · #4 04-07-2007, 03:40 PM

SWTXBelle, I don't give anyone a free pass in terms of slavery and the Civil War, and I agree that many things that the South is demonized for in some ways were accelerated because of Northern policy. (For example, would Andersonville been as bad if prisoner exchanges had continued? Would it have been as bad if the south had more food in general?) And yes, if most of heroes of the Union expressed their thoughts about race today, well, let's just say that the NAACP wouldn't be pleased.

But when I contrast the experience of my parents who are only four years apart in age, the one who went to school in the south didn't experience an integrated public school until law school and the other from the west went to an integrated school from first grade on. Both went to school pre and post Brown vs. the Board of Education. One state's school system thought the supreme court decision meant what it said, and the other decided to wait and see.

I don't especially feel the weight of guilt about slavery on my "southern" shoulders (at least in part because I don't think any of my relatives, especially the southern ones had immigrated yet), but we're talking 1961 before UGA allowed black students to enroll and in some cases 1970s before some high schools in Georgia were integrated. (They had the idea of "phasing" integration in as opposed to the whole system all at once.) The sins of my forefathers, in my opinion, are a whole lot closer than the Civil War.

And yet, instead of trying to ensure decent education for all the kids in Georgia despite their parents or grandparents not getting one, we had probably a ten year fight about the state flag.

On the totally different note:

Occasionally, I'm shocked at the difference in where I categorize states regionally in terms of culture versus where they are geographically. Ohio always freaks me out. I want to think of it as Midwestern culturally, which is probably in error, but it's pretty darn far east for that. (Well not Far East, as in Asian, but you know what I mean.)

alum · #5 04-07-2007, 05:13 PM

Don't forget that Boston, MA public schools had neighborhood (thus segregated) schools until the early 70's at which time forced busing came into play.

Elephant Walk · #6 04-07-2007, 05:19 PM

Or that you know, the majority of race riots in the last 20 years have come in the North and the West (Philly and LA, namely)

IvySpice · #7 04-07-2007, 05:28 PM

Quote:

England was able to abolish slavery without a war - every other nation in the Western Hemisphere was also.

What? You consider what happened in Haiti to be a peaceful exchange of power?

UGAalum94 · #8 04-07-2007, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IvySpice

What? You consider what happened in Haiti to be a peaceful exchange of power?

So is it every other Western country except for Haiti? We could start a list: I'm not up on my emancipation law.

alum · #9 04-07-2007, 05:51 PM

As a former Bostonian, I really believe that the greater Boston area (suburbs included) is one of the most self-segregated areas of our country. There is Mattapan and Roxbury (not to be confused with WEST Roxbury), Beacon Hill and the Back Bay, East Boston and the North End, Newton and Brookline, Weymouth and Quincy, Wellesley and Weston, just to name a few. Each are known for attracting a certain socioeconomic class AND ethnicity/religion.

UGAalum94 · #10 04-07-2007, 05:35 PM

No doubt that other areas of the country stunk too: residential mortgage red-lining of minority neighborhoods, etc. Please don't think I'm trying to say that individual people in other regions were more progressive.

The difference to me is that segregation was official and practiced by the government and gov't agencies in the South long after other regions were trying to officially and legally address it, for example, with the busing you mentioned.

ETA: most areas have neighborhood schools today which end up being segregated, so I'm not sure that in itself points to an intention to discriminate the same way that actually barring enrollment of black students did.

susan314 · #11 04-07-2007, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

And now for something completely different . . .

What consititutes the north, the mid-west and the west in your mind? I'd especially like to hear from those who consider themselves from those regions. And, what do you think distinguishes your region? (Not the geographical!)

I grew up in Michigan and presently live in Ohio. I would generally label myself as being "from the Midwest." Not sure if that's technically correct (according to how the Midwest is supposed to be defined), but I certainly feel Midwestern.

Not sure what areas would constitute the North, now that I think about it.

The northern states such as Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, etc. I would actually consider as "eastern." Many of the other states along the US/Canada border I'd consider as "midwest" (Michigan, etc.).

Edit to add: Guess I wasn't too far off in thinking of myself as "Midwestern." According to Wiki (which is never wrong...lol), the Midwest is generally considered to be: Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, and Wisconsin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwest

shinerbock · #12 04-07-2007, 11:41 PM

Is Atlanta really that segregated? I agree that may be true for where black/white folks live, but even relatively "white" places like Buckhead (east paces), dunwoody, peachtree city, etc, have a lot of minorities who come to hang out or shop there.

I think it sucks for the young black professional crowd in metro Atlanta really. I know they probably love Atlanta, but I've seen a lot of classy young black people feel resistance when moving into nice communities. I don't think they'd describe it as racism, more like cautious hesitation.

UGAalum94 · #13 04-08-2007, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Is Atlanta really that segregated? I agree that may be true for where black/white folks live, but even relatively "white" places like Buckhead (east paces), dunwoody, peachtree city, etc, have a lot of minorities who come to hang out or shop there.

I think it sucks for the young black professional crowd in metro Atlanta really. I know they probably love Atlanta, but I've seen a lot of classy young black people feel resistance when moving into nice communities. I don't think they'd describe it as racism, more like cautious hesitation.

The news story above confirms your theory that Atlanta isn't as segregated as I thought.

As far as the second point, I agree it probably really hard for well educated affluent young black people to find places that they want to live and feel completely welcome.

I think the "cautious hesitation" may be fear of white flight, not so much fear, distrust, or hatred of black people. As you probably know, the city and the surrounding area have experienced shifting demographics; think about Clayton County 10-15 years ago and Clayton County today. South/Mid Gwinnett, 10 years ago versus today. They're demographically different. I think people have concern that any racial change is approaching the "white flight" tipping point. Sure, it's a little racist, but it's more worrying about other people's racist actions that you have no control over.

UGAalum94 · #14 04-08-2007, 12:34 AM

How you do do multiple quotes in the same posts?

shinerbock · #15 04-08-2007, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

The news story above confirms your theory that Atlanta isn't as segregated as I thought.

As far as the second point, I agree it probably really hard for well educated affluent young black people to find places that they want to live and feel completely welcome.

I think the "cautious hesitation" may be fear of white flight, not so much fear, distrust, or hatred of black people. As you probably know, the city and the surrounding area have experienced shifting demographics; think about Clayton County 10-15 years ago and Clayton County today. South/Mid Gwinnett, 10 years ago versus today. They're demographically different. I think people have concern that any racial change is approaching the "white flight" tipping point. Sure, it's a little racist, but it's more worrying about other people's racist actions that you have no control over.

Well, it may be part-racism, but its also from experience in a lot of situations. Its very common in the metro area to see a nice affluent area where affluent and educated minorities move in. However, its also fairly common that they're followed by less affluent, less educated minorities, and suddenly property values are going down, violence goes up, etc. I think its rough for black people because they have the stigma that they're the ones starting the domino effect, but in reality they're trying to get away from the same things the affluent white folks are.