Delta Zeta Reportedly Sues DePauw

[UGAalum94]

So restrained, OTW. Well played.

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

So restrained, OTW. Well played.

I'm trying. I really am.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by OTW

You're right, it is the campus PHC that decides which NPC will be invited to expand. However, to say that this won't be taken into consideration by the women who sit on PHC is just plain ridiculous. I'm sure they'll make the best decisions on what's right for their campus, but this situation's left DZ with a big fat Scarlet Letter, IMO.

I totally agree that this isn't good for Delta Zeta. Which is why I venture to guess that they (Delta Zeta HQ) may put expansion on "hold" for a while.

You live in a perfect world. Sure, we'll have the open minded PNMs, but speaking as someone who used to be an impressionable 18 year old freshman, reps are everything. They don't give a shit about the litigation, but I'm thinking that there will be a lot of them who won't want to rush a sorority with a national bad rep even though it's at no fault of the individual chapters.

You may be right. Let me ask this. Do you (and or anyone else) feel that a PNM would rather be independent than become a member? Is the rep going to be "that bad"? I still feel that the local reputation will supercede the national in most if not all cases.

No chapters have closed. See kddani's post above. She explains it nicely.

See below.

Originally Posted by kddani

And that may very well dwindle. Membership numbers will be down in the fall, and the longer this gets dragged out, the worse the results will be. Those 157 chapters have to be maintained. Thinking that this won't have any affect on their numbers and reputation is a mistake.

I agree that numbers may decrease if the case goes to trial and/or gets dragged out. But again, will it be "so bad" that a PNM would rather be an independent than join? Especially as so many of y'all have pointed out that this is no fault of the individual chapters. I would guess that every Delta Zeta chapter will (should) be prepared to address this very issue during rush.

I'd also imagine that alumnae donations will decrease greatly, and they probably already have. This lawsuit will cost an arm and a leg. DZ's finances are going to likely be in peril.

I'm sure this may be true on a national level but what about on the local (chapter) level? I'm not sure how most NPCs work, but with many NIC/IFCs, most alumni donations go directly to a local chapter or to a local housing corporation etc. And sure, the lawsuit will dip into their reserves. But I'm sure the law firm presented an fee agreement which Delta Zeta's in-house counsel reviewed and approved. Which actually makes me wonder if there isn't some sort of connection between Delta Zeta and Mr. O'Neill or his law firm. Or perhaps Mr. O'Neill is working pro bono.

There's a saying in law school/the legal field "bad facts equals bad law". If DZ did want to set an example and create certain "rights" for sororities and fraternities, they picked a horrible case to bring. This is NOT the case you want to use to set an example.

I agree 100%. However, my concern is that regardless if we like it or not, if this case moves forward, loosing it may (note *may*) set some sort of bad precedent for GLOs down the line. As such, and as much as I'm sure many people don't want to do so, it might behoove GLOs to get "behind" Delta Zeta in this. Not advocating anyone do so, but at least take a wait and see view with respect to the merits of the case.

[UGAalum94]

Is it good to file a lawsuit if losing it will create problems for GLOs down the line?

I don't claim to know everything about this situation or reorganizations, and I'm not speaking for my group at all, but I think this situation at DePauw indicated that GLOs might need some restrictions about how they do re-organizations and closings. While I don't want to open the door to a whole lot of meddling by colleges in GLO business, if no one else will lay down the rules, maybe the colleges need to to protect the interests of students who when they join one NPC organization for life expect to be active members the whole time they are in college (as long as they don't break the rules). Is that an unreasonable expectation for the students and the colleges to hold?

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Is it good to file a lawsuit if losing it will create problems for GLOs down the line?

No.

Frankly, I doubt this lawsuit was filed irrationally. And I doubt that any attorney worth a grain of salt is going to take a case of this type unless they feel they can win it or settle it out of court. Which leads me to believe there may be some merit behind this case.

I don't claim to know everything about this situation or reorganizations, and I'm not speaking for my group at all, but I think this situation at DePauw indicated that GLOs might need some restrictions about how they do re-organizations and closings. While I don't want to open the door to a whole lot of meddling by colleges in GLO business, if no one else will lay down the rules, maybe the colleges need to to protect the interests of students who when they join one NPC organization for life expect to be active members the whole time they are in college (as long as they don't break the rules). Is that an unreasonable expectation for the students and the colleges to hold?

I understand and applaud your concept. However, I doubt any GLO wants any university to meddle in (or dictate) their fraternity/sorority business or policy.

[DGMarie]

If Depauw wanted, could they not require that Delta Zeta put into evidence materials related to their membership selection process or Initiation requirements as part of their case? We at work are often asked to provide materials for opposing counsel in times of litigation. It's part of the discovery process I believe. I'm sure there are lots of little things in secret parts here and their that when scrutinized by the right people can make anyone look bad. I agree this is a trainwreck.

[kddani]

Originally Posted by DGMarie

If Depauw wanted, could they not require that Delta Zeta put into evidence materials related to their membership selection process or Initiation requirements as part of their case? We at work are often asked to provide materials for opposing counsel in times of litigation. It's part of the discovery process I believe. I'm sure there are lots of little things in secret parts here and their that when scrutinized by the right people can make anyone look bad. I agree this is a trainwreck.

That's a very, very good point, and one that is very valid.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by DGMarie

If Depauw wanted, could they not require that Delta Zeta put into evidence materials related to their membership selection process or Initiation requirements as part of their case? We at work are often asked to provide materials for opposing counsel in times of litigation. It's part of the discovery process I believe. I'm sure there are lots of little things in secret parts here and their that when scrutinized by the right people can make anyone look bad. I agree this is a trainwreck.

I would guess (and hope) that Delta Zeta would claim ritual (membership selection) to be privileged information. And anything related to ritual as well.

Originally Posted by TSteven

I understand and applaud your concept. However, I doubt any GLO wants any university to meddle in (or dictate) their fraternity/sorority business or policy.

I agree about universities meddling in Greek business, it shouldn't happen.

However, in looking at the DePauw situation (especially after reading the statements from the University), the girls are DePauw students first. They went to DePauw for an education. If the university feels that the actions of the HQ were detrimental to the students' well-being, they have every right to say, "Hey...get the hell off the campus."

And now DZ's suing the school saying that the school was responsible for all the bad publicity? Uh, take a look in the mirror, HQ.

I know I may be out of line by saying this, but I hope DZ considers getting new authority soon.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by OTW

However, in looking at the DePauw situation (especially after reading the statements from the University), the girls are DePauw students first. They went to DePauw for an education. If the university feels that the actions of the HQ were detrimental to the students' well-being, they have every right to say, "Hey...get the hell off the campus."

I agree. But from what I understand of this case, Delta Zeta is saying they followed - or were within - university guidelines etc.

And again, my feeling is that if Delta Zeta is willing to go public like this, there might be merit to their case.

[ASUADPi]

As others have mentioned I don't think it is wise for DZ HQ to actually be pursuing this lawsuit. I guess they might be looking at it in the way 'we lost the battle but we'll win the war', which isn't the wisest thing to do. The media attention that was brought upon DZ with what happened has been nothing but negative. The bad thing about it is that negative publicity on greek life really effects us all, but it is going to effect them more.

They should really have just cut their losses and moved on and worry about the active chapters. They are the ones who are going to be walking into formal recruitment in the fall with all this media attention and negative scrutiny over thier heads. Telling your collegians how to respond to negative inquiries from PNM's should be a higher priority than a frivilous lawsuit. Even if they win, which I don't think they will, the campus most likely won't allow them to come back. And even if they were "ordered" to allow DZ back on campus, their reputations are shot and girls will probably not want to join.

I think they are looking at the small picture "I want action, I want justice' and not the big picture of "what is best for our collegians and alums nationwide. What is best for all sisters who proudly wear our letters?"

My heart really goes out to the women of DZ, this is not their fault, and they really are suffering the consequences more than anyone else.

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by TSteven

And I doubt that any attorney worth a grain of salt is going to take a case of this type unless they feel they can win it or settle it out of court. Which leads me to believe there may be some merit behind this case.

There are plenty of attorneys who would take a case of this type whether it has a chance in hell of succeeding in any way or not -- publicity, exposure, and $$$.

I really thought the powers that be at DZ couldn't look like bigger assholes than they did when this whole thing blew up. I clearly was wrong. Where are the normal, cool DZ members now and what are they doing about this? I would be LIVID.

[KatieKate1244]

This lawsuit business makes me want to bang my head against the wall. I may be overreacting, but I'm estimating it's going to be close to a decade for DZ to recover from this.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

There are plenty of attorneys who would take a case of this type whether it has a chance in hell of succeeding in any way or not -- publicity, exposure, and $$$.

And unfortunately, I am acquainted with a few. Bless their hearts.

[KillarneyRose]

"If" these sisters were put on alumni status because they way they looked/acted didn't mesh with the direction National wanted it to go, why are people so shocked about that?

Two NPC chapters recolonized while I was at college and when the process was over every sister adhered perfectly to the idea of how their National thought a XXX or ABC should look and act. Both chapters, I recall, were an instant hit inside the chapter room and out. That is what I grew up believing recolonizing to be. Not a warm and fuzzy "oooooooooh, we wuv each other" weekend but rather a "You ladies are not holding up your end of the bargain and so we're going to come and find ladies who will." In the People article I read, one alumni sister was quoted that she wasn't willing to change anything about herself in order to stay in the sorority. So now, how can she bitch?

Seriously, what were after rush party meetings like in your chapters? You never mentioned an outgoing personality, a pretty face or a good body? Those things didn't matter to you? It was all about the philanthropy, right??? Um, yeah, that's how we did it too