Three Hospitalized (Alcohol) at U of Central Florida

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by jessXIca

Not really. They're there to protect pledges. They are a little...thorough, I guess I'll give you that. But people have been killed...there need to be laws that ban it completely in ANY form.

Maybe the thing about the prestige of the chapter is true at some schools, but not at my school, and what happened today proves that very well. At UCF, you don't really get more prestigious than SAE. They were perceived as one of the best fraternities on campus and (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I think they might have been one of the biggest as well.

Actually, yes they are. Hazing laws are not thorough and are very hazy at best. My favorite was this definition: "Hazing is something done to pledges that active members don't have to participate in." Great, that's really defined.

Sorry, you can't just say.."Well, people have been killed...so lets just ban it completely..." People have been killed shooting shotguns on hunting trips........I guess we should just ban guns. People have been killed crossing the street by cars. Maybe we should ban crosswalks.....or how about cars? Fraternity members have been killed falling down stairs...mabye we should ban steps...or perhaps second and third floors on buildings.

It is just shocking to me how narrowminded some of you people are concerning hazing. As i've said before......you can haze without it being dangerous or life threatening in a manner that actually serves a purpose.

And I hate to say it.....but when I think "prestige and power" SAE at CENTRAL FLORIDA doesn't come to mind. I generally think SAE at UGA, SAE at Texas, SAE at Alabama, SAE at SMU, etc. Many of these chapters have had some pretty serious things happend to them.......and came out of the situations with little more than probation and a slap on the wrist. So, if you are going to argue with me that power, money, prestige, and reputation nationally don't play a part in decisions.......you are going to fight an uphill battle. I've been around it and i've seen it first hand.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by jessXIca

By "thorough", I kind of meant "vague", they encompass a lot. Hazing is banned completely to PROTECT the pledges. That way if it happens, you can't get off by pretending it was some kind of "allowed" hazing.

Protect them from what? What do they need protecton from if you aren't doing anything dangerous?

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by jessXIca

How can I phrase this...


If you have laws that permit hazing that isn't harmful, it's very easy for a chapter to take advantage of it and use that law to protect themselves. It's better to ban it outright, because it's not necessary to haze to have a good chapter and a close pledge class. I wasn't hazed at all, definitely the opposite, and my PC is very close.

How would you know what is necessary for a fraternity to have a good chapter and a close pledge class? Explain this. Last time I checked, you rushed and were initiated about 5 minutes ago.

You are in a sorority, no one expects you to get hazed. Stop trying to argue from the standpoint of sorority vs. fraternity.....it is completely different in just about every aspect.

Maybe you should take some trips to the top chapters at all of the huge Southern greek schools and see how they do it....because you don't have a clue. None of us are going to make it a walk in the park for pledges to get their letters. They are going to earn it.....and we can all go about it in a safe and productive manner....which would include hazing. I don't know a single guy from a good chapter that wasnt hazed.....and they all will tell you, to this day, that their pledge year was one of the best they have had. I always say it was the best worst time of my life.....i'd do it again in a heartbeat.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by jessXIca

For Christ's sake, I'm not talking about how what actually happens, I'm talking about the law. Stop going on and on about "old Southern Greeks", those are not the only ones that exist.

You can talk about the law all you want.....you aren't proving anything. You obviously have little knowledge of how things work outside of UCF. If you understood how things do actually happen.....then you wouldn't sit here trying to make some pointless argument of the legality of hazing.

[FL-E1973]

I honestly just can't wait for like two weeks to pass becasue I gauruntee everyone will forget about this. The other thing that bother's me is once something like this happens it's like oh the Greeks are giving UCF a bad name, it's just so easy to be a target. When a GDI dies of alcohol poisoning, or goes to the hospital nobody is like Damn those idiot GDI's are ruining everything. I guess it just comes with the territory. On another note I notice a lot of strife within sororities here on campus. I hear about littles talking bad about their bigs and things of that nature. I think that shows a serious problem with how new members are brought into the Sororities.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by FL-E1973

I honestly just can't wait for like two weeks to pass becasue I gauruntee everyone will forget about this. The other thing that bother's me is once something like this happens it's like oh the Greeks are giving UCF a bad name, it's just so easy to be a target. When a GDI dies of alcohol poisoning, or goes to the hospital nobody is like Damn those idiot GDI's are ruining everything. I guess it just comes with the territory. On another note I notice a lot of strife within sororities here on campus. I hear about littles talking bad about their bigs and things of that nature. I think that shows a serious problem with how new members are brought into the Sororities.

You're right. It will be ancient history in a few weeks. And all women gossip about each other. This isn't a problem exclusive to UCF or sororities. It concerns the entire gender. Not everyone in a sorority LUVS everyone in their sorority all of the time. Yes, sororities shouldn't concern fraternity men with their chapter problems, but I think it is reasonable that a woman should be allowed to vent to her friends, regardless of gender, if someone has upset her and she is trying to figure out the means to cope or deal with that person.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by FL-E1973

When a GDI dies of alcohol poisoning, or goes to the hospital nobody is like Damn those idiot GDI's are ruining everything.

We're not talking apples and apples here.

If an independent were to die due to an event by an organized group, you can bet that it would be a big deal on campus and in the news.

Normally, though, the Library Club probably won't be throwing a keg party -- well, at most schools.

[FL-E1973]

Yeah so when a group of friends holds a keg party I get it. Someone can leave their house and get in a deadly drunk driving accident, and not expect to have reporters walking into their house uninvited etc. That to me is a problem, when a group is being punished on a sole reason of being an organization that is BS especially if noone was harmed. As for HQ those guys had to have done a lot worse stuff than this. They're just trying to be PC, which unfortunatly so is the rest of this country, I think it's time things got real again.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by macallan25

You can talk about the law all you want.....you aren't proving anything. You obviously have little knowledge of how things work outside of UCF. If you understood how things do actually happen.....then you wouldn't sit here trying to make some pointless argument of the legality of hazing.

What does it matter how prestigious Southern fraternities haze their new members when the thread in question is about UCF and a UCF student is commenting on a UCF situation. Fact: The SAE chapter at UCF was a strong UCF chapter. Fact: SAE at UCF has been de-recognized. Fact: In the past, UCF fraternities have gotten in trouble for hazing. Fact: There is a law in Florida that prohibits hazing. Whether that law is clear as day or vague to the general public is irrelevant-- the legal system exists to draft confusion and vague legislation that keeps lawyers and judges employed. Fact: If hazing is against the law in a state, a collegiate men's organization is not above the law to haze their members no matter how "safely" they perceive the hazing.

Clearly, SAE HQ does not condone these behaviors or the chapter would not be closing. That is also a fact.

So while the good chapters not at UCF must haze the bejesus out of their men to make them true SAEs, that is neither here nor there. This is a thread about UCF SAE, and not other schools Greek Systems, or how they haze.

And I realize that JessXIca is new to the Greek System, but she is also a UCF upperclassman who has been involved with the Greek System prior to joining Alpha Xi through UCF activities. It's a big school, but it's still a small community. I don't think anyone needs sorority tenure to comment on situations occuring at her university.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

What does it matter how prestigious Southern fraternities haze their new members when the thread in question is about UCF and a UCF student is commenting on a UCF situation. Fact: The SAE chapter at UCF was a strong UCF chapter. Fact: SAE at UCF has been de-recognized. Fact: In the past, UCF fraternities have gotten in trouble for hazing. Fact: There is a law in Florida that prohibits hazing. Whether that law is clear as day or vague to the general public is irrelevant-- the legal system exists to draft confusion and vague legislation that keeps lawyers and judges employed. Fact: If hazing is against the law in a state, a collegiate men's organization is not above the law to haze their members no matter how "safely" they perceive the hazing.

Clearly, SAE HQ does not condone these behaviors or the chapter would not be closing. That is also a fact.

So while the good chapters not at UCF must haze the bejesus out of their men to make them true SAEs, that is neither here nor there. This is a thread about UCF SAE, and not other schools Greek Systems, or how they haze.

And I realize that JessXIca is new to the Greek System, but she is also a UCF upperclassman who has been involved with the Greek System prior to joining Alpha Xi through UCF activities. It's a big school, but it's still a small community. I don't think anyone needs sorority tenure to comment on situations occuring at her university.

1.) I can assure you plenty of chapters can side step the law.

2.) Again, you are speaking of hazing like it is some horrible, God awful action. Clearly, you are completely narrowminded on the subject.

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by macallan25

1.) I can assure you plenty of chapters can side step the law.

That doesn't make it right.

Originally Posted by macallan25

2.) Again, you are speaking of hazing like it is some horrible, God awful action. Clearly, you are completely narrowminded on the subject.

Hazing is illegal. There are other methods to go about establishing brotherhood bonds-- most things that you consider safe-hazing need only minor modification to follow your own fraternity's policies. Clearly, you are completely narrowminded on the subject believing that you are above the law, as well as the policies your own brothers have voted into being. But again, I suppose that is neither here nor there, because you believe you and the offending prestigious chapters are above such policies.