Miami University Pi Beta Phi Suspended

[agzg]

I tend to agree. I've been to many many formals, and some of those have gotten, well, what I considered at the time to be "out of hand" - but nothing compared to this! A broken glass was cause for huge concern at my school/chapter, but broken vases, someone trying to pee on an artifact in a museum? Never.

Perhaps these women (and their dates) need some serious alcohol intervention.

[IrishLake]

Yep, your last sentance summed it all up very well. Well put!

I think we can politely agree to disagree on the differences in punishment. Opinions on both sides are based on a lot of different factors.

[FuzzieWuzzie]

Originally Posted by MUGreek2011

It's all politics, as is seen yet again with the recent punishments of Pi Phi and Fuzzie. Take some time to read the letters from the Pi Phi and Fuzzie formals back to back. Tell me which is worse, and if you show me someone who tries to justify Pi Phi (with a history of showing up drunk to the few philanthropies they actually attend) getting 1 year off and Fuzzie (involved on campus, no bad history) getting 2 I'll show you a liar. Our administration thought back to the Princeton Review slamming Miami for a lack of diversity, and decided that they couldn't afford to be seen as giving a slap on the wrist for bad behavior at the Freedom Center. I have been told that this was the first large event held at the Freedom Center, so they didn't know what to expect. While the drinking and trashed bathrooms are certainly not appropriate, they are not really that far outside the realm of expectations for a formal. Obviously the student attempting to pee on a monument is completely unacceptable, but that was a date and the girls certainly didn't condone it.

I would make the argument that while the Fuzzie girls were not well-behaved, the Freedom Center never should have been hosting an event like that in the first place. But they are hard up for cash, as the center has lost money every year since it opened to the best of my knowledge, so they are looking for any possible additional revenue (see: the spokesman suggesting they come back for a tour in the fall). They deserve a punishment, but social probation is more appropriate, not kicking off for 2 years a chapter that contributes on campus.

On the other hand, Pi Phi showed a complete disregard and treated the staff at their formal as if they weren't even human, with one responding to a worker telling her a stall was out of order by saying, "You don't understand..I don't care." The rest of their actions that night reflected that attitude. Pi Phi not getting the 2 year kiss of death is a joke. They earned it. I'm extremely disappointed by the way our administration has handled greek life over the past few years, and the way they have handled these two cases is absolutely despicable. Instead of doing the right thing, they are ruining the sorority experience for a whole chapter (Fuzzie) in an attempt to save face with the African American community. The university was going to take a massive image hit once the Pi Phi letter went public anyway, so throwing Fuzzie under the bus wasn't going to help anything. They deserve a reprimand, but not to have their whole experience ended.

Um, as a member of Alpha Xi Delta and a black woman I am embarrassed and I feel that the punishment is justified. These ladies were representing their organization, their school and themselves. All 3 were let down. Just because it’s a "black" museum, would it make it any better if they were at the natural history museum and started playing baseball with a dinosaur bone? NO!! It would not.

The freedom center is a beautiful building, with gorgeous views. My wedding reception of 250 was held there. It is a venue that can really make a memorable event. So when you say they have never had an event there, that BS.

Additionally I also feel that the women of Pi Beta Phi should have received the same treatment. You state that these women showed total disregard for others, well so did AXiD. I think that the punishments should have been equalized but we don’t know all of the other things that were going on behind the scenes.

And on reading more and more about these incidents, (because it’s on every news & radio station here in Cincinnati) it reminds me as to the reason I chose not to attend Miami for my undergrad. IMO, everything there turns into a black or white thing. But I digress; I won’t get started on that tangent.


But bad behavior is bad behavior.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by UofM-TKE

On another topic. When I read this article and I got to the end, I was surprised to see my own picture. It was my Facebook account, offering to let me 'Like' or comment on this story. Somewhere, there is a database which knows that I read this article, and which I find very creepy.

Originally Posted by Blondie93

/hijack

This is Facebook's fault, not yours. This new "feature" was added a few weeks ago and also includes plugins to websites such as cnn, people, etc. I, too, was shocked beyond belief to see my picture (and friends' pictures too) on a website that I was visiting for the first time.

Of course FB set the default privacy setting to "allow" for everyone unless we turn it off. Therefore, if you don't like it I encourage everyone to go into their privacy settings-> applications and websites-> instant personalization pilot program. Unclick.

You may still need to "sign out" from the facebook portion of sites that you have visited since FB launched the program. I updated my privacy settings about a week ago, and other than "signing out" in those facebook boxes for about 24 hours I haven't had a problem since.

Again, realize that even if you aren't seeing yourself on certain sites your friends can see if you have read/liked an article on that site.

Annoying beyond belief.

end hijack/

These "social plugins" were activated a few weeks ago. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done to stop them from "logging you in". There is no opting out. Changing the button for "instant personalization" will not effect this new feature.

FB says that it does nothing with the info is receives, but it pisses me off too:

Facebook Help:
http://www.facebook.com/help/?page=1068

How do I opt-out of viewing social plugins?

No data is shared about you when you see a social plugin on an external website. You can choose to use social plugins when you click the "Like" or "Recommend" button on a piece of content you want to share. These actions are publicly available information, similar to public comments or reviews you might write on a website. Only click the "Like" or "Recommend" buttons if you want to share your likes and recommendations publicly./help/?faq=17097

[AZTheta]

my FB comment has been moved to another thread... easy to find.

[ComradesTrue]

I will start a thread to move this facebook commentary elsewhere.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by MUGreek2011

The university's stance on hazing is ludicrous, as under their mandates having pledges participate in any event as a group constitutes 'hazing'. As in, where there used to be a philanthropy basketball tournament between the fraternities pledge classes, this year the tournament had to be opened up to everyone so that it wouldn't be 'hazing'.

This has its roots in sororities making their pledges ONLY participate in Derby Days, Watermelon Bust, what have you. It IS hazing and has been looked on as such for a long time. (And I'm not someone who cries hazing at the drop of a hat.) These events are for the whole Greek community to help with philanthropy, not for putting pledges on display. Not to mention sending only the pledges to mixers - probably worse since alcohol is involved. So pledges AND initiated members play on the basketball teams. So what??? That's how it should be.

Originally Posted by MUGreek2011

While it may seem in the article above that Jerry is 'gunning' for one particular fraternity, in reality he just wants organizations to operate responsibly. He has put countless hours into making sure houses do succeed, but at the same time he will call a spade a spade when need be.

"Calling a spade a spade" is fine amongst your brothers or behind closed doors, but to do as he did in a public manner is not mature or professional. It makes him look like he has a big chip on his shoulder against Sigma Chi, and/or makes it look like sour grapes because the chapter he advises is losing rushees to them. I've never been to Miami, have no clue of the fraternity reputations there, and that's exactly how it comes across to me.

Originally Posted by MUGreek2011

On the other hand, Pi Phi showed a complete disregard and treated the staff at their formal as if they weren't even human, with one responding to a worker telling her a stall was out of order by saying, "You don't understand..I don't care."

As you're a dude who can pee anywhere, I think you're completely misinterpreting this statement. I've had times where I had to pee so bad I didn't care if a stall was out of order, either. It had nothing to do with the person who was informing me of the state of the stall.

Here's my question: if Pi Phi is such a raging bunch of alcholic brats who drag the whole Greek community down, why have they continued to exist? Why do they keep getting good sized pledge classes? Why do fraternities continue to mix with them? Obviously the only time that anyone truly gives a shit about what they do is when they get caught and it gets Miami's name dragged through the mud.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by 33girl

This has its roots in sororities making their pledges ONLY participate in Derby Days, Watermelon Bust, what have you. It IS hazing and has been looked on as such for a long time. (And I'm not someone who cries hazing at the drop of a hat.) These events are for the whole Greek community to help with philanthropy, not for putting pledges on display. Not to mention sending only the pledges to mixers - probably worse since alcohol is involved. So pledges AND initiated members play on the basketball teams. So what??? That's how it should be.



"Calling a spade a spade" is fine amongst your brothers or behind closed doors, but to do as he did in a public manner is not mature or professional. It makes him look like he has a big chip on his shoulder against Sigma Chi, and/or makes it look like sour grapes because the chapter he advises is losing rushees to them. I've never been to Miami, have no clue of the fraternity reputations there, and that's exactly how it comes across to me.



As you're a dude who can pee anywhere, I think you're completely misinterpreting this statement. I've had times where I had to pee so bad I didn't care if a stall was out of order, either. It had nothing to do with the person who was informing me of the state of the stall.

Here's my question: if Pi Phi is such a raging bunch of alcholic brats who drag the whole Greek community down, why have they continued to exist? Why do they keep getting good sized pledge classes? Why do fraternities continue to mix with them? Obviously the only time that anyone truly gives a shit about what they do is when they get caught and it gets Miami's name dragged through the mud.

All of this! I'm so tired of people b*tching that they can't make their pledges do this or that anymore. What is wrong with a whole chapter participating in an event with their new members? Secondly, whatever anyone else says, coming onto a message board and trashing a chapter is not okay. It really wreaks of jealousy. It sounds like a bunch of people think it's time to pile on and tear down the competition while they're on their knees. Newsflash...they don't need your help.

[Low C Sharp]

if Pi Phi is such a raging bunch of alcholic brats who drag the whole Greek community down, why have they continued to exist? Why do they keep getting good sized pledge classes? Why do fraternities continue to mix with them?

'

Just a guess, but:

Because fraternities think they're a good time, and a subset of freshman girls want to be seen as a good time?
________
VAPORIZER VIDEO REVIEW

[MUGreek2011]

Originally Posted by FuzzieWuzzie

Um, as a member of Alpha Xi Delta and a black woman I am embarrassed and I feel that the punishment is justified. These ladies were representing their organization, their school and themselves. All 3 were let down. Just because it’s a "black" museum, would it make it any better if they were at the natural history museum and started playing baseball with a dinosaur bone? NO!! It would not.

The freedom center is a beautiful building, with gorgeous views. My wedding reception of 250 was held there. It is a venue that can really make a memorable event. So when you say they have never had an event there, that BS.

Additionally I also feel that the women of Pi Beta Phi should have received the same treatment. You state that these women showed total disregard for others, well so did AXiD. I think that the punishments should have been equalized but we don’t know all of the other things that were going on behind the scenes.

And on reading more and more about these incidents, (because it’s on every news & radio station here in Cincinnati) it reminds me as to the reason I chose not to attend Miami for my undergrad. IMO, everything there turns into a black or white thing. But I digress; I won’t get started on that tangent.


But bad behavior is bad behavior.

The center definitely does appear to be a place with gorgeous views as I saw for the first time on the news the other night. I would actually be inclined to go visit were it not for the lack of professionalism shown by their staff in addressing this matter (their spokesman going on the radio to trash the sorority, etc.).

Saying that "everything there turns into a black or white thing" is beyond hilarious- I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. We're glad you went elsewhere.

If there's one thing I will agree with you on, it's that the punishments should have been (at least) equalized. Like I said before, I'm not arguing that Fuzzie should have gotten off scot-free. But their sentencing came after Pi Phi's, and to give them twice as much of a punishment in light of the details is reproachable.

Get the chip off your shoulder, in no way did I nor do I intend to suggest that it being a black history museum makes it less important than any other museum. You'll note that I said that the actions of the only student who approached a monument in any way were completely unacceptable.

However, I think if you (and anyone else) takes an honest look at this situation, if we exclude the incident mentioned above, this all would be boiling down to the Freedom Center biting off more than they could chew and now having buyer's remorse. The DJ told the Freedom Center staff prior to the event that the sorority had been banned from BB Riverboats, where they'd previously held an event, for being too out of hand. This almost undoubtedly changed expectations and how they approached the night, and they included this in their letter to Miami. Of course, BB Riverboats has now come out and said that was entirely untrue. If you haven't already read the actual letter from the Freedom Center, I suggest you do so. I have a feeling some of the outrage stems from the fact that people are considering these two incidents one in the same rather than separately looking at them objectively and tearing them apart piece by piece.

So lets do just that. The Freedom Centers' complaints were as follows:

1) The students brought their own alcohol into the center.

Well, by their spokesman's own admission, they were providing alcohol for the attendees, so basically doesn't this just boil down to them wanting to get paid while the attendees get drunk? Much the same as how baseball stadiums won't allow you to bring in anything more than peanuts and water but of course, if you want a slice of pizza or a hot pretzel they'll be more than happy to allow you to consume one in the stadium as long as you pay their price.

So with that, not a big deal at all, but something worth a little bit of punishment.

2) Girl is too inebriated upon arrival and her date curses sorority members and staff.

Standard procedure for these sorority events is that if you're too out of control, you are sent home in a taxi on your own dime rather than allowed in. They did the correct thing in arranging for a taxi and they even tried to get her date in line. The girls did everything right here. In this case, there is likely no problem identifying the individual in question, so he should be penalized individually under the code of conduct.

3) Couples (presumably) having sex in the family restroom

Not classy, but guess what? You have 'family' restrooms and they are doing their business outside of public view. Again, not classy but not illegal, nor is it anything that I would think could be sanctioned under the code of conduct.

4) Bathrooms trashed/girls vomiting

Not good, but some of this has to be expected with a formal. Girls vomiting doesn't surprise me at all, the bathrooms being in somewhat poor shape is unsurprising. I agree that there should be some punishment for this, but this isn't on the same level as people purposely pooping because they think it's funny like at the Pi Phi formal.

5) Guy tries to pee on exhibit and then service elevator

Again, something that was in no way condoned by the sorority, and I assure you they will (if they haven't already) give up his name in a heartbeat. So punish him for his pathetic behavior under the code of conduct. This isn't like the Pi Phi situation--the Fuzzie girls weren't sitting there laughing/cheering on this kid as he acted like a clown. The fuzzie I spoke at length with about this situation was livid about what he did. By no means was this encouraged by the group.

6) Drinks spilled on dance floor

Not surprising at all, although some punishment is warranted if it was done as nonchalantly as the letter suggests, rather than being the result of people bumping into each other as ~250-300 people try to dance. I've been to numerous formals/on numerous dance floors (including with some of the girls that attended this), and I've not seen someone just blatantly throw down their drink--the people nearby would kick their rear end for getting it on them.

I suspect, both from the tone of the letter and what I know, that this was largely a case of the Freedom Center staff being told what they were by the DJ and then seeing things the way they wanted to see them. Perhaps they have the same attitude as the poster I'm responding to, and saw a bunch of white girls come into their center and decided to make it a black/white thing. No doubt something should be done, but this incident didn't even come close to being on par with the Pi Phi situation. Yes, it should be punished more harshly considering the venue, but even then 2 years is overboard. Realistically, Fuzzie should have gotten social probation if it was just at a random place. Given it was at the freedom center, I would agree a semester (or maybe even year) long suspension is in order. However, if that is going to be the case, Pi Phi's suspension should be no less than 2 years. Having the punishments the way they are (reversed) is a complete misappropriation of justice.

[MUGreek2011]

"So pledges AND initiated members play on the basketball teams. So what??? That's how it should be."

We have an entire fraternity intramural league for that. The event I mentioned was an opportunity, early in their pledging, for the pledge class to bond on its own. There are a multitude of opportunities for them to do stuff with brothers, this was an opportunity for them to do something as a pledge class, and now that is gone. As to the other poster who said 'why can't the chapter just do something together with the pledges', trust me, we do. Probably 80% of the active brothers are there cheering on their pledges, as they are at the other events like this. It was a really neat event, I'm sure the pledges enjoyed getting cheered on by ~75 people. Many of them cited that tournament as one of the better moments of their pledging, as they realized that we really wanted the best for them and they had a whole chapter behind them for the first time. Now that's gone.

"Calling a spade a spade" is fine amongst your brothers or behind closed doors, but to do as he did in a public manner is not mature or professional. It makes him look like he has a big chip on his shoulder against Sigma Chi, and/or makes it look like sour grapes because the chapter he advises is losing rushees to them. I've never been to Miami, have no clue of the fraternity reputations there, and that's exactly how it comes across to me.

As far as losing rushees to Sigma Chi: Jerry couldn't care less where teenage kids rush, just that they do and that they end up being better men for having been in a fraternity. Like I said, he's helped many fraternities, including mine, who competes more directly with the one he advises than Sigma Chi does. If he was only motivated by helping his own chapter, he wouldn't be assisting mine, who has gotten kids that his chapter wanted badly. But you know what? Even after that, as his chapter goes downhill (through no fault of his own), he continues to help those who seek his help. If you had been to Miami, you would know the chapters involved and would know that his chapter does not recruit the same types of guys at all so his chapter isn't losing anyone to Sigma Chi. He talks in the article about how Sigma Chi used to be an exemplary chapter, as any alpha should be. This is not a petty man dealing with petty matters. He is retiring in a semester and is airing the greek system's dirty laundry in hopes we might rectify it. Hell, he's given us the tools to do so, it's high time it's done. This man has done everything in his power to help the greek system, not tear it down. Please quit making assumptions without knowing the campus landscape at all, as they have been completely inaccurate.

Here's my question: if Pi Phi is such a raging bunch of alcholic brats who drag the whole Greek community down, why have they continued to exist? Why do they keep getting good sized pledge classes? Why do fraternities continue to mix with them? Obviously the only time that anyone truly gives a shit about what they do is when they get caught and it gets Miami's name dragged through the mud.

See the response above mine. Not many fraternities do mix with them--they hang out almost entirely with one fraternity in particular. Which is fine, but to suggest that a sorority filled with drunken brats will not recruit well is to overestimate freshman rushees who mostly just want to get into the 'top tier' (read: best looking) sorority.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by MUGreek2011

The event I mentioned was an opportunity, early in their pledging, for the pledge class to bond on its own. There are a multitude of opportunities for them to do stuff with brothers, this was an opportunity for them to do something as a pledge class, and now that is gone.

And what about the fraternity whose pledges are not athletic and could care less, who feel compelled to participate? Do you really think they enjoy it? There are tons and tons and TONS of ways for pledge classes to bond with each other without the whole Greek community watching them and judging them.

Originally Posted by MUGreek2011

Please quit making assumptions without knowing the campus landscape at all, as they have been completely inaccurate.

My point exactly. This article will be widely distributed in the wake of all that's happened, and 99% of the people who read it won't know jack about Miami. If he's writing things that people outside the Miami community will read, he needs to think about how those people will interpret them. And I'm betting a lot of people will interpret them just as I did - see some of the previous posts on this thread.

Originally Posted by MUGreek2011

See the response above mine. Not many fraternities do mix with them--they hang out almost entirely with one fraternity in particular. Which is fine, but to suggest that a sorority filled with drunken brats will not recruit well is to overestimate freshman rushees who mostly just want to get into the 'top tier' (read: best looking) sorority.

According to a friend who is an alum, there are very, very few unattractive girls at Miami. To state that best looking = top tier seems somewhat simplistic. All that aside, there is still some amount of self-policing that can be done when a group's actions are found inappropriate by the Greek community. That apparently hasn't happened.

[MUGreek2011]

Originally Posted by 33girl

And what about the fraternity whose pledges are not athletic and could care less, who feel compelled to participate? Do you really think they enjoy it? There are tons and tons and TONS of ways for pledge classes to bond with each other without the whole Greek community watching them and judging them.

I'll bet you're one of those people who think we shouldn't keep score in youth sports too? Everyone's a winner!

My point exactly. This article will be widely distributed in the wake of all that's happened, and 99% of the people who read it won't know jack about Miami. If he's writing things that people outside the Miami community will read, he needs to think about how those people will interpret them. And I'm betting a lot of people will interpret them just as I did - see some of the previous posts on this thread.

Or maybe he made a conscious decision that the call to arms to improve was more important what some uninformed, judgmental outsiders will think?

According to a friend who is an alum, there are very, very few unattractive girls at Miami. To state that best looking = top tier seems somewhat simplistic. All that aside, there is still some amount of self-policing that can be done when a group's actions are found inappropriate by the Greek community. That apparently hasn't happened.

Well, that's just not true. I go there now--maybe your friend has extremely low standards, but even within the sorority system (self-selected), we all know which sororities are largely attractive and unattractive. I'm not going to name names because that's not the kinda guy I am, but rest assured there are those on both ends of the spectrum.

With all that being said, my primary reason for posting here in the first place was to defend one of Miami's greek community's greatest assets from attacks by people who knew not about what they spoke. I have no desire to spend the rest of my day going back and forth with someone who clearly doesn't know what they are talking about, so I'm going to go sit by the pool and indulge in a summer beverage instead. Cheers.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by MUGreek2011

With all that being said, my primary reason for posting here in the first place was to defend one of Miami's greek community's greatest assets from attacks by people who knew not about what they spoke. I have no desire to spend the rest of my day going back and forth with someone who clearly doesn't know what they are talking about, so I'm going to go sit by the pool and indulge in a summer beverage instead. Cheers.

I didn't realize that guys could flounce.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

I didn't realize that guys could flounce.

We've had a plethora lately.