Lawmakers Find $21 a Week Doesn't Buy a Lot of Groceries

[JWithers]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Do you really think that every human being in this country has the intellectual capability of going to college and succeeding there? Seriously?

No, I said everyone has the same opportunity to apply to college and apply for grants and scholarships, if they have proven their merits. How ridiculous to twist my words.

What are you saying? That now colleges should not base admissions on intelligence and merit but on need? Proposterous.

The PP stated that many people , otherwise qualified for admission ,are prohibited from receiving a decent education because they have no $$. That is was unfair because they were otehrwise college-worthy students but were unfairly unable to attend college because of the expense.

I retorted that anyone to whom it is a priority can find the sources with which to apply for grants, scholarships and financial aid and college work study. Ergo, if a student has worked hard, made good grades and truly desires a college education, money or lack therof is not going to hold them back.

To suggest that a person who either lacks intelligence or GPA can still get accepted to a University is preposterous. But that is not society closing a door on this person, it is simply a symptom of the person's natural weaknesses. I have dyslexia, so I am not about to tackle a career as a spell-checker. But I have strengths in other areas. See what I mean?

I simply said, and it has been blown WAY out of proportion, that if an otherwise qualified college candidate blames finances on his or her ability to attend said college, well ,that is malarky.

[James]

Of going to college and succeeding there? Well the vast majority, academics are not exactly hard.

Originally Posted by AGDee

Do you really think that every human being in this country has the intellectual capability of going to college and succeeding there? Seriously?

[AGDee]

Actually, that brings up a good point. Are there truly enough jobs for every adult in this country? Jobs that people can really support themselves on? We're experiencing a serious crisis in Michigan and there are not jobs that people are qualified to do. They aren't there. They don't exist and we don't have a huge immigrant population up here doing jobs that "Americans won't do". The number of foreclosures is unreal. The number of houses for sale right now is astounding.

I read some things on here that just aren't consistent with my experiences and reality. For instance "Sports are free" because I have never found a free sport for my kids to play. AYSO soccer is $155 a season. Parks and Rec baseball is $50 for a 6 week season. Oh yeah, and they need $45 shoes to play, and shin guards, gloves, bats, balls, etc. Find me a free sport and my kids will be signed up. Scouts, an all American healthy kid activity are costing me at least $600 a year between the two kids. And now we've added marching band to the mix.. at $500 a year plus equipment, uniform parts, instruments, etc. I would love to find a free sport, club, ANY activity for my kids.

I work so incredibly hard as a single mom and I have a decent job which I hope and pray is secure. It's very difficult for me to keep my head above water and keep my kids involved in good healthy activities and in a good school district and safe neighborhood.

I keep reading that there is Social Security disability available but there seems to be a lack of realization that if you haven't put anything into the system, you can't get anything back out. Everybody gets those annual statements from Social Security now telling what you'd get if you were disabled, retired at certain ages, etc. If you haven't made much money and put much into the system, you don't get much back.

I looked into apartments when I got divorced so I wouldn't have to put myself on such a tight budget by buying a house. The only 3 bedroom apartments in our current school district were "moderate income only". To get an apartment for $875 a month, I had to make less than $35,000 a year, gross. Supporting two kids on that income with that level rent isn't very realistic.

There are people who are working 2 and 3 minimum wage jobs trying to make ends meet. You think if they had a real opportunity to work only one job at a decent rate, they wouldn't jump on it?

Susan: I have become the queen of maximizing the grocery shopping since my divorce and I spend about half what you do each month! I work the sales for sure, buy generics a lot (because I've found that 90% of the time, they are just as good as the brand name items), store hop to get the best deals. It is definitely more time consuming. However, when I go to the fruit market, I can get 10 times the amount of produce for half the price than if I buy produce at the grocery store. It's an art, but I've become good at it.

[JWithers]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I'm going to post this story again because it is valuable:


This woman still has not been able to go to college. She desperately wants to but she cannot qualify for loans because of her bad credit and other sources of funding are in short supply.

FYI, JWithers, the man who coined the phrase "God helps those who help themselves" did not believe in God's constant involvement in our lives. The Bible tells a very different story - one of humility, compassion and sacrifice even for the most wretched and undeserving of us.

Jeni.

If we all got what we truly deserved we would all be in hell. I thank my God every day for His grace and mercy and for the sarifice of Jesus Christ, that we need not pay the sins of for our evil hearts , but rather are forgiven through Him.

And I am still not going to buy the argument that education is out of reach. I know too many people who have done it despite the roadblocks.

Again, and I am so tired of repeating this. I am not advocating the starvation and annihilation of poor people. I am not suggesting cutting off food stamps. I do not hate poor people, nor do I hold them in contempt. What I do find odious is people who blame others for their problems.

I did not have internet when I applied for my grants and scholarships. I called for forms, filled them out and mailed them in. You can still do that. Lack of internet is not an excuse. Good gravy, people- If you want to help people, you must teach them to be self-sufficient.

You can keep digging for excuses why people won't do for themselves but I'm not buying it. I did it. Every bit of it, With NO, did I say NO, help from anyone. I was smart enough for college, so I was smart enough to go through the drill.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by JWithers

No, you do not know me, nor do you know my life experience.

You do not have permission to judge me or judge the quality of my faith. That alone is displeasing to God.

I simply stated that education is available to people in the most impoverished circumstances. Liz Murray, the daughter of herion addicts, was neglected and abused since infanthood. She was placed in foster care, where she was repeatedly assualted. And yet, somehow, She had the drive and the will to go to school, make good grades and get into Harvard. Flippin' HARVARD!

She didn't blame me for her circumstance. She didn't cry, "I can't do it because no one will help me". She made her life work. SHe took the crappy hand life dealt her and refused to let it hold her back.

You do not , I repeat, not, know me. You do not know what contributions I make to my community and you do not know where I sit with my Lord. Don't you judge me, it is not your place. I teach Sunday School, too, and also lead a ministry for teens in crisis. So keep your self-righteous rhetoric to yourself. You speak in hyperbole and and speak knowingly of what you know not.

And I agree, we are here for His glory. How is it glorifying Him to say, "I can't , it's too hard". If thats how you feel , you just go ahead and throw God's gift in His face. But I thank Him everyday, even when I buried a child, even when I thought I couldn't go on, I thanked Him and I got up, moved on and praised His name.

You do not know me, you have no right to judge me and I will respectfully ask you to not do so again. My soul is not impoverished, it is full, my cup runneth over. In the face of every pain I have suffered I stand here and tell you 'God is good'.

I still stand strong on what I said. An education is available to anyone with the will to obtain it.

The fact that you feel the need to cast aspersions on another's faith tells me that maybe you are not filled with the Spirit.

When I was a child I spoke as a child and I did childish things... But when I became an adult, I had to put childish things away...

If you know anything about me, you can search my posts. If you don't care, then hey, I just offer it up to you. But, you do not know me and your delluded descriptions of me is unfortunate. That's okay, various folks on GC think plenty things about me.

"They talked about Jesus Christ and you saw what they did to Him, they dayum sho are gonna talk about you" --My old pastor.

If you knew your history, it was illegal for my ancestors to obtain an education to read in the United States. How can you cavalierly state that ANYONE can obtain an education knowing this history? Be careful now, you my mother was water cannoned by the city's police department for marching for equality in education during the civil rights movement...

Yes, there are anecdotal exceptions to everyone who has had a poor life and obtained at "Harvard" education. I know that. But the vast majority of poor people who live in this country as being the first world country far exceed the nice cute anecdotal exceptions.

In fact, you have judged me with your anger. That is fine and you can persecute me too. I have held hands with the Devil had has all my numbers, but through my worst circles of Hell, it was God that delivered me and strengthened me in my most forsaken of hours. The last Being ever to give me a fighting chance. And there was a reason for that, which I am sharing with as many others as I can...

All people have suffered, this is true. But, children should not be made to bear that which is beyond their own control. And because we live in the United States and abide by a Consitution and a Bill of Rights, if we as citizens promote this stuff, then we should be about making that change. And when funding has been cut for programs to assist people, we cannot complain that there is an increase in criminality or health disparities, which in my experience usually ensues.

Should we all not be about trying to make it better than belittling those who have less than us? Is that in anyway judging you of your relationship with God? No. I think I am only trying to send you a powerful message because of my "gifts" given to me. Now, you can either heed that message or you can leave that message. Ultimately, you have free will and can make your own choice. And I am sorry your pain has caused you much distress. But, to let you know, you are somebody in God's eyes. You are worth all that before Him and He knows this. And I also do know that He is asking you to look beyond the surface and what you see. I don't know why I know this about you, but I know you are capable of many great things, wherever you are...

Stay blessed...

[JWithers]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Actually, that brings up a good point. Are there truly enough jobs for every adult in this country? Jobs that people can really support themselves on? We're experiencing a serious crisis in Michigan and there are not jobs that people are qualified to do. They aren't there. They don't exist and we don't have a huge immigrant population up here doing jobs that "Americans won't do". The number of foreclosures is unreal. The number of houses for sale right now is astounding.

I read some things on here that just aren't consistent with my experiences and reality. For instance "Sports are free" because I have never found a free sport for my kids to play. AYSO soccer is $155 a season. Parks and Rec baseball is $50 for a 6 week season. Oh yeah, and they need $45 shoes to play, and shin guards, gloves, bats, balls, etc. Find me a free sport and my kids will be signed up. Scouts, an all American healthy kid activity are costing me at least $600 a year between the two kids. And now we've added marching band to the mix.. at $500 a year plus equipment, uniform parts, instruments, etc. I would love to find a free sport, club, ANY activity for my kids.

I work so incredibly hard as a single mom and I have a decent job which I hope and pray is secure. It's very difficult for me to keep my head above water and keep my kids involved in good healthy activities and in a good school district and safe neighborhood.

I keep reading that there is Social Security disability available but there seems to be a lack of realization that if you haven't put anything into the system, you can't get anything back out. Everybody gets those annual statements from Social Security now telling what you'd get if you were disabled, retired at certain ages, etc. If you haven't made much money and put much into the system, you don't get much back.

I looked into apartments when I got divorced so I wouldn't have to put myself on such a tight budget by buying a house. The only 3 bedroom apartments in our current school district were "moderate income only". To get an apartment for $875 a month, I had to make less than $35,000 a year, gross. Supporting two kids on that income with that level rent isn't very realistic.

There are people who are working 2 and 3 minimum wage jobs trying to make ends meet. You think if they had a real opportunity to work only one job at a decent rate, they wouldn't jump on it?

Susan: I have become the queen of maximizing the grocery shopping since my divorce and I spend about half what you do each month! I work the sales for sure, buy generics a lot (because I've found that 90% of the time, they are just as good as the brand name items), store hop to get the best deals. It is definitely more time consuming. However, when I go to the fruit market, I can get 10 times the amount of produce for half the price than if I buy produce at the grocery store. It's an art, but I've become good at it.

In order for me to stay at home with my kids, we cut costs HUGELY. I cut our grocery bill by a third. I work PT at my daughters preschool to pay for tuition and other expenses. And we still manage to put some in savings each month.

I would love your tips on saving at the grocery store!

[JWithers]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

When I was a child I spoke as a child and I did childish things... But when I became an adult, I had to put childish things away...

If you know anything about me, you can search my posts. If you don't care, then hey, I just offer it up to you. But, you do not know me and your delluded descriptions of me is unfortunate. That's okay, various folks on GC think plenty things about me.

"They talked about Jesus Christ and you saw what they did to Him, they dayum sho are gonna talk about you" --My old pastor.

If you knew your history, it was illegal for my ancestors to obtain an education to read in the United States. How can you cavalierly state that ANYONE can obtain an education knowing this history? Be careful now, you my mother was water cannoned by the city's police department for marching for equality in education during the civil rights movement...

Yes, there are anecdotal exceptions to everyone who has had a poor life and obtained at "Harvard" education. I know that. But the vast majority of poor people who live in this country as being the first world country far exceed the nice cute anecdotal exceptions.

In fact, you have judged me with your anger. That is fine and you can persecute me too. I have held hands with the Devil had has all my numbers, but through my worst circles of Hell, it was God that delivered me and strengthened me in my most forsaken of hours. The last Being ever to give me a fighting chance. And there was a reason for that, which I am sharing with as many others as I can...

All people have suffered, this is true. But, children should not be made to bear that which is beyond their own control. And because we live in the United States and abide by a Consitution and a Bill of Rights, if we as citizens promote this stuff, then we should be about making that change. And when funding has been cut for programs to assist people, we cannot complain that there is an increase in criminality or health disparities, which in my experience usually ensues.

Should we all not be about trying to make it better than belittling those who have less than us? Is that in anyway judging you of your relationship with God? No. I think I am only trying to send you a powerful message because of my "gifts" given to me. Now, you can either heed that message or you can leave that message. Ultimately, you have free will and can make your own choice. And I am sorry your pain has caused you much distress. But, to let you know, you are somebody in God's eyes. You are worth all that before Him and He knows this. And I also do know that He is asking you to look beyond the surface and what you see. I don't know why I know this about you, but I know you are capable of many great things, wherever you are...

Stay blessed...

I am not talking about past history. Can you truly tell me of a prospective student water cannoned for attempting to go to University in the last 20 years? B/c your mom was treated cruelly, does that mean that young people today are not awarded financial aid based on color? If that is the case I stand corrected. I thought aid was awarded on the applicant, and did not realize there was a bias against black students.

I am talking about now, today, and I am also done talking to you. Your arguments are insulting and ridiculous.


I have no anger towards you, I have, however repeatedly asked you not to judge me or my faith. And still you have ignored my request.

Ignore.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by JWithers

You can keep digging for excuses why people won't do for themselves but I'm not buying it. I did it. Every bit of it, With NO, did I say NO, help from anyone. I was smart enough for college, so I was smart enough to go through the drill.

Didn't you say in another post that you asked your guidance counselors at high school? Sounds like getting help from someone else to me...

[JWithers]

Originally Posted by centaur532

Didn't you say in another post that you asked your guidance counselors at high school? Sounds like getting help from someone else to me...

Free help. Available to any public HS student. I never asked someone to pay for me or do my work for me. I asked what I needed to do and I did it. Again, an example of getting your info and taking charge.

But probably I am priviledged. I will bet the GC only gave me the addresses b/c I was white. You are right. I am so priviledged and elitist. I am sure if another student had gone and asked "hey, I haven't got money for school, what do I do? ", and they weren't me, they would have told them "gee, I can't help you" What an idiotic thing to say.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by JWithers

Free help. Available to any public HS student. I never asked someone to pay for me or do my work for me. I asked what I needed to do and I did it. Again, an example of getting your info and taking charge.

But probably I am priviledged. I will bet the GC only gave me the addresses b/c I was white. You are right. I am so priviledged and elitist. I am sure if another student had gone and asked "hey, I haven't got money for school, what do I do? ", and they weren't me, they would have told them "gee, I can't help you" What an idiotic thing to say.

What the christ? dial down the anger issues before you blow a fuse. Jesus...

By the way, it's privileged.

[JWithers]

Originally Posted by centaur532

What the christ? dial down the anger issues before you blow a fuse. Jesus...

By the way, it's privileged.

Not angry. Just tired of repeating myself to a bunch of zealots who read only what they want. Y'all need to get a life. I'm out. Morons.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by JWithers

Y'all need to get a life. I'm out. Morons.

Says the person who's spent her day making 'not' angry posts in this thread. Mmmmhmmm.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Our government is one for people, not one for a particular religion, any religion or some moral persuasion. I think it's civilized, not Christian for society to care for those who truly cannot provide for themselves.

I think it's immoral for society to force its members to give of themselves to support others who simply choose not to work.

And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

- Luke 11:9

It's even worse for those people nto to protect their own dignity. If the state could develop a comprehensive rehabilitation program, stop paying people to make babies, give all people in poverty a reasonable means out, then yes, I think we at some point have to be able to say "enough is enough."

Or maybe $21/week'll do?

See, that is why I truly respect your opinion, because of your level-headedness and even temper.

So, I see your above points and a few I am compelled to comment:

To much is given, much is expected.. And greater the responsibility... It is our duty and obligation to serve those who others may deem less deserving.

So a crackhead mother robbing people at gun point and chooses to smoke crack rather than rehab and get a job and an education, folks would find it easy to cast her aside... But the minute she changes, the very second she says no more, even if it is 70 X 70, even as a civilized society, we cannot refuse her. And believe me there are 1000s like her in every city.

Yes, you are right to wean folks off the welfare rolls. But, I don't think we can begin to fathom the public health costs it takes when we do that. We already have a crazy Health disparity in several states and it all aligns with poverty moreso than ethnicity.

And we are not talking about people with all their marbles in place. Many of them are have clinically psychological problems beyond depression or bipolar. A lot of young men have schizophrenia. And a lot of young women are suffering from psychosis. Psychotropic drugs cost money, then you cannot treat with a drug without lifestyle modification and how do you make someone like that make better choices with financial decisions?

I don't know, but you know what the duty is from the State. Could you please elaborate?

True individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.
~Franklin D. Roosevelt

And now we have turned this debate is a suitable discussion without all that personal emotions.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by JWithers

Not angry. Just tired of repeating myself to a bunch of zealots who read only what they want. Y'all need to get a life. I'm out. Morons.

INTERNET FLOUNCE!

They always come back!

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by JWithers

I am not talking about past history. Can you truly tell me of a prospective student water cannoned for attempting to go to University in the last 20 years? B/c your mom was treated cruelly, does that mean that young people today are not awarded financial aid based on color? If that is the case I stand corrected. I thought aid was awarded on the applicant, and did not realize there was a bias against black students.

I am talking about now, today, and I am also done talking to you. Your arguments are insulting and ridiculous.


I have no anger towards you, I have, however repeatedly asked you not to judge me or my faith. And still you have ignored my request.

Ignore.

Young lady, I am asking you kindly to privately message me due to a communication error.

Please do it, because you will bury yourself with your words and there is no sense in that.

What I am saying to you personally, is you actually do have something valid to say however you are crowding with misconceptions about a great many things.

I am nearing 40 years old. Do you think I would want to speak to you after my Hell in a Doctorate program in Molecular Genetics? I am grown enough to ask for help and have the desire to learn from you. Besides, believe me, I do have PLENTY OF OTHER things I could be doing.

But, if you choose to HATE ME... Fine.

I still mean what I say.