Delta Zeta Reportedly Sues DePauw

[SWTXBelle]

While it is a PR disaster, from a legal perspective, it might not be. Until we know exactly what is in the suit - and what relevant Indiana law is - there's no way to know whether or not the suit will succeed. And hey - it even depends on the judge. A good lawyer knows the law - a great lawyer knows the judge. No telling how this will play out - JMHO.

[ForeverRoses]

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...703290488/1196

Based on this article, it says that the case was filed in US District Court in Terre Haute.

At this point, I'm surprised DZ didn't just let it rest. It had finally dropped off the news radar, but then last night it was back on the evening news and back in the Indianapolis Paper this morning. I'm not sure if this will hurt DZ nationally, but just from speaking with my friends here in Indy-- it's not helping them in Indiana.

Also, as soon as I heard this on the news last night, all I could think of was "I wonder what Greek Chat has to say about this". I wasn't dissapointed!

[SWTXBelle]

Thanks for the link, ForeverRoses. The possible suit by the former members is interesting - I guess if DZ can claim the University ruined its reputation, it only makes sense that the former (or alumnae?) members could claim the same of DZ. Of course, the DZ suit seems to be from a purely business perspective - sigh. Someone tell me when it's over!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by TSteven

The lawsuit could have implications for fraternities and sororities nationwide. Generally, universities have no say over the internal operations of fraternities and sororities. "For a university to say, 'If you place this person on alumnae status, then we're not going to let you operate anymore,' the university is deciding that they get to choose the members," O'Neill [Kevin O'Neill, Delta Zeta's attorney] says. "That's a major concern for all the fraternities."

Regardless how anyone may fell about this situation, as Drolefille noted in an earlier post, the above is what this is about. As such, I agree with Mr. O'Neill that this should be a concern for all GLOs. And I am quite confident that every GLO HQ is going to follow this case rather closely.

No Kevster, I think the university is deciding that you shouldn't notify women a week before finals that they're not going to have a place to live when they get back from break - when you previously told them that they would.

If there's any sorority or fraternity that has a problem with that, they can just bite me.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by TSteven

I thought Delta Zeta already made public certain membership policies with respect to discrimination. Most GLOs have their policies "out there" and available to the public. The whole "We do not discriminate based on..."

This might go way above that - as far as things like exactly how they decide to select their members. For example, a girl has a 4.0 so she gets 25 points on their 100 point scale or something. (This is a pulled from my nether regions example and I'm not saying any group does this) This is stepping into ritual territory.

[PenguinTrax]

I find it interesting that the only thing on the DZ web site is information about this debacle. It is like this is their sole reason for existence now. Sad.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Heather17

I am not an expert but one of the things I got out of my higher education law class was that if you don't protect your rights, they can be taken away. Yeah, its true--DZ may suffer in numbers or reputation by pursuing this suit. And as an administrator, I would be hesitant about bringing a group to campus that was known for suing another school.

But I wonder--wouldn't it be worse if we, GLOs, lost the right to decide who our members are? Wouldn't it be worse if we didn't have a right to be autonomous and run our organizations by our own values? (This is also why many orgs are resistant to university efforts for values congruence relationship statements etc.)

We need to protect our rights.

This whole debacle is not about our rights to decide who our members are. It's about how we treat those who already ARE members. It's about how much we can call ourselves sisterhoods and how much we should admit we are businesses.

This chapter has been in the state it was in, or should I say the tier it was on, for a long time. Did DZ really think they would be able to blow in and recolonize and have the perfect chapter for the centennial in a year's space of time?? At a school with 2500 students?? If they were really that worried about the chapter being around and healthy for the centennial, they should have done a recolonization and an image overhaul LONG before this.

[SWTXBelle]

As I understand it, DePauw did not have an official policy regarding releasing GLO members from their housing until AFTER the DZ incident. While no one condones the members being forced out on short notice, it should be noted that this was not against any University policy at the time it happened. Please correct me if I am wrong.
It is possible to do something which is WRONG, but not, for lack of a better term, illegal. DePauw also has a procedure in place to deal with both students and organizations which are in violation of university policies, and to the best of my knowledge they did not follow this in their handling of DZ.
No one looks good in this mess, but we need to distinguish between actions which we disapprove of and actions which may be illegal or in violation of established policies. The legal battle will be decided on a different criteria than the PR battle.
I think an important issue is whether or not an organization has the right to be boneheaded about handling their membership selection. As we've seen in the PR war, it carries its own penalty, without the University lifting a finger.
I imagine the next DZ convention will be far more interesting than most.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by Heather17

I am not an expert but one of the things I got out of my higher education law class was that if you don't protect your rights, they can be taken away. Yeah, its true--DZ may suffer in numbers or reputation by pursuing this suit. And as an administrator, I would be hesitant about bringing a group to campus that was known for suing another school.

But I wonder--wouldn't it be worse if we, GLOs, lost the right to decide who our members are? Wouldn't it be worse if we didn't have a right to be autonomous and run our organizations by our own values? (This is also why many orgs are resistant to university efforts for values congruence relationship statements etc.)

We need to protect our rights.

Sorry, not buying that (excuse me) crap. This isn't about "our rights". We are guests on campuses if we want to be recognized by the administration. We have to abide by their rules. I see no unfairness in this whatsoever. While some schools (UA, for instance) would probably take a HUGE hit in applications if they closed the greek system, most probably wouldn't.

This is NOT in any way shape or form about our rights to choose our own members. NO ONE has challenged that right. No one has even challenged the right to dismiss members, or force alumna status upon them. What has been challenged is the actions taken by the HQ of the organization, such as evicting sisters in the middle of the school year, and then not being consistent in statements to the public and to the school/susters. THAT was the final straw that resulted in the eviction of the entire chapter from DePauw. DePauw did NOT say that it was because of the membership review, though they obviously didn't approve of the manner in which that was conducted either (and that's their right, to disapprove).

This isn't about them somehow taking one for the team, for Greeks. They are systematically making themselves AND all of US look bad. They'll dig all the way to the center of the earth and beyond.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

As I understand it, DePauw did not have an official policy regarding releasing GLO members from their housing until AFTER the DZ incident. While no one condones the members being forced out on short notice, it should be noted that this was not against any University policy at the time it happened. Please correct me if I am wrong.
It is possible to do something which is WRONG, but not, for lack of a better term, illegal. DePauw also has a procedure in place to deal with both students and organizations which are in violation of university policies, and to the best of my knowledge they did not follow this in their handling of DZ.
No one looks good in this mess, but we need to distinguish between actions which we disapprove of and actions which may be illegal or in violation of established policies. The legal battle will be decided on a different criteria than the PR battle.
I think an important issue is whether or not an organization has the right to be boneheaded about handling their membership selection. As we've seen in the PR war, it carries its own penalty, without the University lifting a finger.
I imagine the next DZ convention will be far more interesting than most.

But what obligation legally is the university under to extend an invitation to a sorority to be recognized and then keep that no matter what? I just fail to see how DePauw or anyway school is obligated to recognize an organization, especially when they have brought continuous bad publicity and have been stubborn and obnoxious towards their host.

It isn't about membership selection. The only thing DePauw has done that is remotely related to membership selection is to make a rule that organizations can't dump those that they promised to treat as family out on their butts in the middle of a school year, unless there is a dangerous/legal issue involved (I would assume this means drugs, bodily harm, etc.). I fail to see how this is unfair. Maybe forcing organizations to plan far in advance when dealing with a situation such as the Delta chapter had will promote a more gentle and sisterly/brotherly attitude and force those in charge to have time to think about what they are doing.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by kddani

And a federal judge would probably laugh at that. You could maybe get away with that with a trial level state court judge. But membership selection is the heart of this issue.

I don't want to see anyone's ritual get put into public record, but at the same time, DZ needs to realize that this could very likely come out.

If true, then I would not be surprised if the NPC, NIC, IFC, NPHC, Masons, Junior League and any organization that may involve ritual and or some sort of subjective or private (secrete) membership selection files some sort of "friend of the plaintiff" brief. (What ever the heck it might be called).

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by 33girl

No Kevster, I think the university is deciding that you shouldn't notify women a week before finals that they're not going to have a place to live when they get back from break - when you previously told them that they would.

If there's any sorority or fraternity that has a problem with that, they can just bite me.

Kevster?

[PM_Mama00]

Anyone else think this may help DZ's recruitment next Fall? (or Spring) Girls who are so hooked on image and being a part of the beautiful sorority could be thinking to themselves "Well they kick out the ugly people, so if I can get in that means I'm pretty and hot!". Just thinking on a college freshman/high school perspective. Some girls just don't know about the sisterhood and committment that comes with being in a sorority. Some just want the partying and the boys.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by 33girl

This might go way above that - as far as things like exactly how they decide to select their members. For example, a girl has a 4.0 so she gets 25 points on their 100 point scale or something. (This is a pulled from my nether regions example and I'm not saying any group does this) This is stepping into ritual territory.

I agree. Regardless of how individuals may feel about this, I'm sure GLO HQs (and the NPC, and the NIC, and the NPHC, and other groups) are quite concerned about the fall out as it may apply to *their* organizations.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Anyone else think this may help DZ's recruitment next Fall? (or Spring) Girls who are so hooked on image and being a part of the beautiful sorority could be thinking to themselves "Well they kick out the ugly people, so if I can get in that means I'm pretty and hot!". Just thinking on a college freshman/high school perspective. Some girls just don't know about the sisterhood and committment that comes with being in a sorority. Some just want the partying and the boys.

No, I doubt it, because the way this is coming off to the general public is that you don't have to be pretty to GET in, you have to be pretty to STAY in, and your rolling the dice that whoever it is that's judging who's pretty and who's not thinks that you are.