Homeless people

[Kevin]

They annoy the hell out of me.

I live downtown about 3-4 blocks away from the bus station which is relatively close to the homeless shelter. I frequently walk between where I live and the city's main club/bar/entertainment district (known as Bricktown). Without fail, I get hit up at least twice.

Yesterday, I saw a homeless guy who had taken his art form to a new low. Dude was sitting in a wheel chair, pulling himself around by his feet (if he was really unable to walk, I don't see a) how in the hell he got all the way out there in a wheel chair and b) if his legs worked well enough to pull him around in his chair why he needed the chair. At any rate, dude looked pathetic.

My wife and I were walking to the botanical garden which is also a few blocks from home. The guy locked onto us like a heat seeking missile. You ever watch football where you think the guy with the ball is going to go for a touchdown, but some defender "has the angle" and catches him? Well, this guy had the angle on us. We of course pick up the pace, but the "crippled" guy starts dragging his wheelchair at warp speed catching up to us.

As he starts to close on us, I figured out how to lose him. We made a bee-line for a parking garage where there was a high curb -- and most notably, no ramp to make it wheel chair accessible (it was a shortcut anyhow). So of course we lost the guy. I guess he was faced with the dilemna of actually catching up to us (eventually he would have) or blowing his wheelchair cover by getting himself over that curb. We won... game, set, match.

These folks really get on my nerves. They aren't really all that bad off. If they're able to catch up to me in their fake wheelchair and give me some bullcrap story about how they ran out of gas, lost their job down at the plant, etc., they can definitely work. That they choose not to ain't my problem. There are homeless that really do need help.. like the schizo woman (who I still see around here walking the streets occasionally) I stopped to block traffic and dialed 911 for as she was laying in the middle of the street clutching a teddy bear screaming "Kill me!". Those folks need our help. Panhandlers? eff em.

[tld221]

i'm a little tired right now to defend the homeless (or "people without homes, as my journalism professor would say - another story)... but i see my share of homeless folks in NYC. i will agree, most of the time they are annoying - they all that their sob stories and in my case, disrupt what you hope will be a peaceful commute home. then you've got to dig in your pockets for loose change which they will spend on anything from cheap boose and loosies to their children's school shoes. i had a homeless guy (according to him, he was a war vet and the government only gave him $60/month to live for him and his wife) follow me during my lunch hour last week and it freaked me out.

however, realize the homeless come in various looks - i was homeless off and on for 1.5 years at one point. but i didnt walk around reeking of urine and vodka. nor did i beg for change. i feel very fortunate for that.

my point to you, Kevin, is though you may think the homeless are annoying, and think that "theyre totally able to work!" consider the following:

1. the pride it takes to ask complete strangers for change. some of are too ashamed to borrow money from our friends and families for various things. these people are asking - begging - not because they want to but because they HAVE to.

2. survival of the fittest doesnt allow them to have the "privelege" of working. the job market is rough enough as it is. how many people (including ourselves) have a hard enough time finding a job with college degrees, decent references and past job experience? i know i am. now imagine having limited education, little to no job references, no means to even get an interview for a menial minimum-wage job? im sure that's a fraction of what the homeless face if they are even thinking about working. and let's be honest - if a seemingly homeless person walked into your place of business looking for work, would you tell him "Can you start on Monday?"

As much as i want to ridicule and blame you for your borderline "holier than thou" attitudes towards those less fortunate, i really cant - for all i know, you probably have never been in a position to have to ask for help, financially or otherwise. and im not talking about "man i need bucks to pay for my books next semester" or "wow, can i grab $10 for dinner tonight?" but some real destitute type help.

[Kevin]

tld, I'd never be in that sort of position. I'm not the person some of these folks are. OKC is an interesting place. There is at least one sort of pseudo-corporate entity that sponsors beggars (I've seen a van doing pickups/dropoffs). These guys on a busy street corner can rake in some pretty good money. A decent middle class living at least.. all cash.

As for pride? I don't really care about their situation. Their problems are not my problems. This is a country where someone can sneak over the border with nothing but the clothes on their backs, not be able to speak the language and still be able to make a paycheck.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Kevin

tld, I'd never be in that sort of position. I'm not the person some of these folks are.

We'll i (rather my family) never thought i'd be in "that sort of position" either. no one KNOWS theyre gonna end up homeless. just like you said, people can come to this country with nothing and fair OK... but conversely, people who are economically comfortable can fall flat on their @sses and go to nothing. it's less likely, but it does happen.

Originally Posted by Kevin

As for pride? I don't really care about their situation. Their problems are not my problems.

well lucky you - youre financially comfortable enough that you can distance yourself from the unpleasantries of the less fortunate. god forbid that they ruin your appetite by asking for change and smelling less than desirable.

how can you judge then? seriously, you dont know the backstory - you just know what is front and center. all im sayin is that there's a LOT going on behind the vans that pick them up and drop them off in the city. i know in some parts of DC, the city will sweep homeless into vans, drop them off in some random ass place, give them $10 and bounce. doesn't that suck?

and im sure if these people had a network to fall back on (and im not talking about going to public assistance or having to ask for help from the government, but a real safety net - family, friends, mentors, counselors) then it could be another reason to stay off the streets.

[EE-BO]

Read "Nickel and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich and then we'll talk. Seriously- that book will give you a new perspective.

I see your point Kevin to a degree (and I too get agitated when approached repeatedly or aggressively), but it is frightening how quickly a person can become homeless in this country with current rental rates (courtesy of real estate speculation and rapacious property taxes) even if they do have a job- or even two jobs.

I have had countless employees, some of them making $30K+ a year, who have a place to live for them and their kids only because family and friends are helping them out. Again, I see your point in some cases, but you would be amazed how many people are NOT homeless in this country who would be homeless if it were not for the support of friends and family. And many homeless are that way because they do not have friends and family to help.

[AlexMack]

Dude, you're a real selfish prick. Okay, harrassing you is one thing but just plain not giving a damn?
Sorry I was raised in a family where my parents would travel to London once a month with vanloads of sandwiches, drinks, old clothes and blankets to hand out to the homeless.
It doesn't matter how they got there, the fact is they're homeless. Have a little goddamn compassion in that stone lump you call a heart.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by centaur532

It doesn't matter how they got there, the fact is they're homeless. Have a little goddamn compassion in that stone lump you call a heart.

Why should I have compassion for someone who doesn't even care enough for themselves to take advantage of free services within walking distance? We have free food, clothing, shelter, psychological counseling, rehab and job training/placement services all within walking distance of here.

Compassion should not be blind and stupid. I honestly do not care that you think I'm insensitive or whatnot. I don't see why it's obligatory to have "a little goddamn compassion" about what happens to someone who tries to sell me a line of B.S. so that I'll give them money to buy alcohol/drugs with.

[dekeguy]

Two thoughts occur to me: Firstly, when I was about ten years old my Aunt told me the story of Saint Martin of Tours. Might be worthwhile to google it and see if you think it applies. Secondly, a lot of homeless people are veterans who have seen too much of the horror of war and just can't fit into mainstream society as a result. I'll be damned to hell if I ever pass up a veteran asking for help if I have so much as a dime to my name.
One might remember the source of the phrase, 'and the greatest of these is charity'.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why should I have compassion for someone who doesn't even care enough for themselves to take advantage of free services within walking distance? We have free food, clothing, shelter, psychological counseling, rehab and job training/placement services all within walking distance of here.

Compassion should not be blind and stupid. I honestly do not care that you think I'm insensitive or whatnot. I don't see why it's obligatory to have "a little goddamn compassion" about what happens to someone who tries to sell me a line of B.S. so that I'll give them money to buy alcohol/drugs with.

Would you like to discuss the state of mental health care in this country? A lot of homeless people are those who cannot receive enough care whether medication, therapy, residential care or otherwise to function in normal society. Their job/insurance/Medicaid doesn't pay for their pills (or only pays for pills not therapy to help you stay on them) which leads to your schizophrenia causing you to lose your job. No job, no home. If you're not serverly disabled you can't stay at a mental health facility long term. Social services try but there's not enough money.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by dekeguy

One might remember the source of the phrase, 'and the greatest of these is charity'.

Damn Catholics. The phrase is "The greatest of these is love."

I know that in Catholic-speak love=charity, but let's not go there.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Damn Catholics. The phrase is "The greatest of these is love."

I know that in Catholic-speak love=charity, but let's not go there.

Hey, just cause we taught you good don't mean you got to get all cranky bout it.

[dekeguy]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Damn Catholics. The phrase is "The greatest of these is love."

I know that in Catholic-speak love=charity, but let's not go there.

=======

Damn Proddys.

Actually, in Catholic-speak the phrase is rendered as 'the greatest of these is love', in this case I was referring to the Masonic usage which equates love and charity. The United Grand Lodge of England and Wales has a pamphlet entitled 'The greatest of these is Charity' and explains the Masonic ideal and obligation to be aware of the needs of others and always to exercise charity, especially to widows and orphans, and to all mankind in general.

Now, for your penance, go put a buck in the Poor Box.

[jubilance1922]

A lot of homeless people have mental health issues. My uncle is mentally ill and also homeless.

Whenever I encounter a homeless person I try to give as much as a can. Its not my place to judge their situation or why they are homeless. I would hope that if I ever ended up homeless (which is actually my biggest fear in the world) people would try to help me instead of judging me.

[purplewindex]

Would you like to discuss the state of mental health care in this country? A lot of homeless people are those who cannot receive enough care whether medication, therapy, residential care or otherwise to function in normal society. Their job/insurance/Medicaid doesn't pay for their pills (or only pays for pills not therapy to help you stay on them) which leads to your schizophrenia causing you to lose your job. No job, no home. If you're not serverly disabled you can't stay at a mental health facility long term. Social services try but there's not enough money.

AMEN. I am a social worker and there are just so many people in dire need of mental health services and homeless shelters, but there is just not enough money to help everyone. So yeah, if people are in need of help what is a few spare pieces of change to you? You seem pretty well off considering that holier-than-thou attitude you've got going on. It's not just a simple cut and dry "why don't they just walk into the homeless shelter" down the street to fix their problems. It's not that easy because they get filled very quickly. If they are asking for some change, don't be a dick about it.

Stereotypes about the homeless really piss me off.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Why should I have compassion for someone who doesn't even care enough for themselves to take advantage of free services within walking distance? We have free food, clothing, shelter, psychological counseling, rehab and job training/placement services all within walking distance of here.

Compassion should not be blind and stupid. I honestly do not care that you think I'm insensitive or whatnot. I don't see why it's obligatory to have "a little goddamn compassion" about what happens to someone who tries to sell me a line of B.S. so that I'll give them money to buy alcohol/drugs with.

I'm not saying blindly give, I am saying you're lumping all homeless people under the same umbrella, like they're not good enough to breathe the same air. Yes, some people could go out and get jobs, but a lot of homeless people, for various reasons, can't do that.
I literally don't carry change or cash on me, otherwise I would give a lot more. Maybe I'm just soft, whereas my career would indicate that I be burned out and hardened.