Dr. Henry Louis Gates Arrested

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Aren't you in law school? This really may have very little bearing on the case - it may influence views on the officer's credibility, but if you know anything at all about witness credibility, you'd realize cops . . . have it. Implicitly. I'm not certain the "legal" ramifications of not giving your badge number include "throwing out the case" in this situation - are you?



Notice you left out "tumultuous" . . . is there a reason for that? Are you sure that a man yelling at a cop in his front yard causes no alarm?

Additionally, words can certainly escalate to the point where these definitions could be met. You're just saying "they didn't" without any real support is unconvincing.



You're not "saying" that - you're "showing" that, in every thread. You've never taken anything but a contrarian stance against those who bring up anything to suggest an incident might not have the explicit racial overtones you give it.

Tumultuous was not left out on purpose. That was an oversight on my part. And to answer your question, I don't think his behavior was cause for alarm. I have seen far worse behavior from individuals who were in the presence of cops, and they were not arrested. The cop went overboard and now his refusals to apologize are making him look even more suspect. as an officer of the law he should be held to a higher standard. At the very least he could apologize and be the bigger person. That would go a long way towards helping his case. since he is some kind of instructor on racial profiling his apology could simply be that he did not make Dr. Gates feel as though he was the victim of racial profiling, and that he simply was responding to a call. Doing that would not kill him. Instead he is continuing to be a bit of a jerk about it. This shows a complete lack of sensitivity.

As for your question about the cop ID information, I did not mean for you to interpret my statement as saying that was the reason it was thrown out. My point was that they not only threw the case out because they couldn't maintain the charge, but also because they were hoping to avoid having him file a complaint because the officer did not comply with his request.


Finally, while words CAN escalate to the point where those "requirements" are met, the key word is CAN. There is still nothing to indicate that this is what happened. Despite the fact that there are hundreds of accounts of what happened, the fact remains is that the only thing they have been able to say was that Dr. Gates repeatedly asked for the officer's information and was angry. He didn't hit anyone, he didn't swing at anyone, and he didn't do anything that they could point to that created a hazardous environment.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

It isn't difficult to get an idea about people from their responses. So far I have yet to be surprised. People are pretty much giving the responses I expected them to give. I understand that there are diverse backgrounds here, but some common denominators typically result in the same opinions and responses. this is one reason why I can understand where Sotomayor was coming from with the statement that she got flamed for. Many individuals on this board do not experience the kind of racism that certain minorities in this country experience. With that being the case, they are typically far less open to the notion that racism is as prevalent as it is, or they can only recognize blatant forms of racism. Despite the fact that you claim that many of the people I disagree with have expertise and diverse backgrounds, the fact remains that their responses and opinions are pretty much the generic responses of whites who either don't care that racism exists, want to sweep it under the rug instead of being faced with it, or as mentioned previously, actually require blatant forms of racism. Some of these very people that you speak of are so obstinate in their negative opinions of Dr. Gates that it leaves to question whether they are racist themselves. For the record, while I don't think all cops are bad, this situation to me reeks of racism and abuse of police power.

I personally think both sides were in the wrong. However I would like ot say this. Yes racism exist and can still be found in the world. But I hate people who see any kind of situation between a white man and a person of color and automatically yell out "Racism." regardless of any facts. To me that is just racism of another kind, the whole "White people are evil" point of view. I am sick and tired of it, though nobody ever mentions racism against white people.

[UGAalum94]

Maybe Oprah could have them both on her show and mediate a touching mutual apology. Gates: I'm sorry I was a jet-lagged jerk who questioned your motivation in investigating a break in at my house. Cop: I'm sorry I got carried away with my authority when you wouldn't quit accusing me of racism. Obama could bless them from on high and we could move on to canonizing Michael Jackson.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

It isn't difficult to get an idea about people from their responses. So far I have yet to be surprised. People are pretty much giving the responses I expected them to give. I understand that there are diverse backgrounds here, but some common denominators typically result in the same opinions and responses. this is one reason why I can understand where Sotomayor was coming from with the statement that she got flamed for. Many individuals on this board do not experience the kind of racism that certain minorities in this country experience. With that being the case, they are typically far less open to the notion that racism is as prevalent as it is, or they can only recognize blatant forms of racism. Despite the fact that you claim that many of the people I disagree with have expertise and diverse backgrounds, the fact remains that their responses and opinions are pretty much the generic responses of whites who either don't care that racism exists, want to sweep it under the rug instead of being faced with it, or as mentioned previously, actually require blatant forms of racism. Some of these very people that you speak of are so obstinate in their negative opinions of Dr. Gates that it leaves to question whether they are racist themselves. For the record, while I don't think all cops are bad, this situation to me reeks of racism and abuse of police power.

If you already knew what everyone's responses were going to be, and you clearly have us all figured out, why did you even bother starting this thread in the first place?

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

I am sick and tired of it, though nobody ever mentions racism against white people.

Just a random question, but... did Obama make a public statement about the New Haven firefighters at the end of a news conference concerning healthcare? Just wondering

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Some of these very people that you speak of are so obstinate in their negative opinions of Dr. Gates that it leaves to question whether they are racist themselves.

Again, when all else fails, you decide to label as "racist" those who disagree with your point of view.

This is starting to become a running theme.

ETA: It's a shame too, because you say some things in your posts that are intelligent, well-thought, and correct. Racism is still an issue in this country, and sometimes it's things that not everyone can see. It's not always one blatant incident - it could be a pattern of behavior, or more subtle actions.

The problem is, in your posts you're very quick to characterize people based on their disagreements with you. You don't know the posters on this board. Yet, you're making a judgment about what kind of person they are because of their disagreements with you. It makes it very difficult to debate you, because you seem to be willing to drop labels on people at a certain point in the debate.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Maybe Oprah could have them both on her show and mediate a touching mutual apology. Gates: I'm sorry I was a jet-lagged jerk who questioned your motivation in investigating a break in at my house. Cop: I'm sorry I got carried away with my authority when you wouldn't quit accusing me of racism. Obama could bless them from on high and we could move on to canonizing Michael Jackson.

It wouldn't be complete unless they hugged at the end to a standing ovation from the studio audience.

You do know how the American public likes to put a neat little bow on every situation - this would be the perfect way to do it.

[SWTXBelle]

HEY! Everyone could then sing "We Are The World", thus tying it all together with a Michael Jackson bow!

And there aren't "generic" responses from whites, any more than there are from minorities. Just in this thread we've seen a wide variety of responses from all over the color and political spectrum. We ALL contain multitudes, to borrow from Whitman.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

The cop went overboard and now his refusals to apologize are making him look even more suspect. as an officer of the law he should be held to a higher standard. At the very least he could apologize and be the bigger person.

Some would argue that Gates went overboard, too. And I've yet to hear him apologize. As a highly educated man, he should be held to a higher standard. At the very least, Gates could apologize and be the bigger person. (See what I did there?)

I don't think the cop was in the wrong any more than Gates was. And if the police officer is chastised for refusing to apologize, then Gates should be as well. Works both ways.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Again, when all else fails, you decide to label as "racist" those who disagree with your point of view.

This is starting to become a running theme.

ETA: It's a shame too, because you say some things in your posts that are intelligent, well-thought, and correct. Racism is still an issue in this country, and sometimes it's things that not everyone can see. It's not always one blatant incident - it could be a pattern of behavior, or more subtle actions.

The problem is, in your posts you're very quick to characterize people based on their disagreements with you. You don't know the posters on this board. Yet, you're making a judgment about what kind of person they are because of their disagreements with you. It makes it very difficult to debate you, because you seem to be willing to drop labels on people at a certain point in the debate.

For the record, I don't just label someone as "racist" when they disagree with my point of view. I can understand dissent. There are some people on here who disagree with me, but I don't see their comments as racist. Even those who don't think the incident was racist, but still think the cop was in the wrong are not people that i think are racist. My problem is with the comments that show a distinct refusal to consider that it just might actually bE racism. And I have issues with some because in more than one thread concerning incidents that appear to be racist, these individuals immediately discount the black person's claims. I have included a link that I find interesting. It discusses how people may be more racist than they think.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/07...udy/index.html

Oh and one more thing, you accuse me of being quick to drop labels on people you claim I don't know, but haven't you and some others done the same to me? Quite frankly, you can tell where someone's head is by what they write on a message board. All I'm saying is that some of the responses do indicate a certain level of prejudice or bias or racism.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

HEY! Everyone could then sing "We Are The World", thus tying it all together with a Michael Jackson bow!

And there aren't "generic" responses from whites, any more than there are from minorities. Just in this thread we've seen a wide variety of responses from all over the color and political spectrum. We ALL contain multitudes, to borrow from Whitman.

Well hopefully our version of We Are The World would be better than the one at his memorial. I still shudder when I think about how they murdered the song!

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Idiot you say? What's your experience with idiots?

For him:

An idiot would recognize an idiot and he is on very familiar ground at calling one out.

That's not to say that he's right however.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Many individuals on this board do not experience the kind of racism that certain minorities in this country experience. With that being the case, they are typically far less open to the notion that racism is as prevalent as it is, or they can only recognize blatant forms of racism. Despite the fact that you claim that many of the people I disagree with have expertise and diverse backgrounds, the fact remains that their responses and opinions are pretty much the generic responses of whites who either don't care that racism exists, want to sweep it under the rug instead of being faced with it, or as mentioned previously, actually require blatant forms of racism.

So you have to experience to be able to give an experienced professional opinion on it?

Is there a certain level of racsim that you have to experience that would allow your thoughts to weight heavier than others?

So, why post this if you knew what you were going to get and then flame people that gave their (rehearsed and as you call it generic) responses to the situation?


I guess for this case, "It's a Black thing" and those who are non Black would just have to understand, hmmm?

As you get older and more experienced with life you have to know when (not) to play the race game especially in murky situations such as this one when both sides behave badly.

[SWTXBelle]

Let's all go to the lobby . . .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9CSnlb-ymA

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Let's all go to the lobby . . .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9CSnlb-ymA

can you get me some Raisinettes (sp?)?

I'm good for it!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

It isn't difficult to get an idea about people from their responses.

Yes, it is.