The Devil's Advocate: Imus/Rap industry

[Honeykiss1974]

Well I'm sure by now everyone has read or watched the Imus saga and now, the final outcome which is him being fired from CBS as well. But I wanted to create this thread because I'd like to play DV for a minute and just post a few thoughts I've had, so induldge me.

There are tons of very well known rappers/entertainers that use the exact same language as Imus when referring to women, but yet there is no outrage. In fact, they are rewarded with high record sales and endorsement deals. I would say that these types of people are even more damaging to our self esteem than Imus because of their large influence on our your people (shoot, old ones too). Men immulate the language thinking that is how you are supose to refer to women, while young women become immune to it and think its ok.

Should we now shift our focus and outrage from IMUS to the rap industry? If not, why do you consider one situation to be different from the other?

Let's discuss!

[TonyB06]

HK,

I disagree with your contention that there is “no outrage.” There have been several on-going efforts to blunt, if not eliminate, this element of gantsta rap music.

The late C. Delores Tucker led a national education/boycott effort in the late 90s to confront the issue. Rev. Calvin O. Butts, pastor of Abyssinian Baptist Church in NYC (and KAY member) led, and continues a similar effort on this front. Rev. Al Sharpton, and his National Action Network as recently as last year continued his work on this effort. It was discussed just this morning on Russ Parr show, how Sharpton urged the boycotting of a Tony Neyo, Yayo? (I’m not familiar with him, but drew contextually the fact that he’s a gansta rapper). By the way Sharpton was CRITICIZED on the Parr show for this effort.

That the mainstream media is unaware or not reporting on these efforts does not translate into “no outrage” in the black community. The national media elite, when it comes to the African American community, are always “late” to the party. And then want to walk in like the party didn’t start until they got there. Nor are the media’s hands clean here. Last night, on MSNBC’s Scarborough Country they referenced a New York Times music review (earlier this year, I think?) of some gangsta rap CD, which praised it be for being “a dynamic, gritty, urban call from the streets” or some such language. Yet, today the Times, the nation’s leading newspaper, is in the criticism choir, attempting to demean the Black community for gangsta rap’s rise. What are we to make of this?

While (for some odd reason) our community heavily consume gangsta rap (to our detriment), I’ve seen several reports -- for years -- suggesting that white teenagers are its biggest consumer. Now, since I don’t think it’s a “black” only problem, I’m not about to suggest it’s a white teenage problem either. But I haven’t seen any reporting saying it’s a white teenager problem. Have you?


I’m glad that the mainstream news community, albeit late, has now found its voice in defense of Black womanhood. But I don’t remember viewing/hearing too much reporting on the degradation of Black women in the weeks/months before Imus’s statement last week. Do you? And I wonder if the mainstream media will remain focused in its reporting on this issue after the Imus issue has subsided.


There are lots of aspects to this story and the bigger issue of race in America. But if we’re going to tell the story, then we might as well tell it all.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

HK,

I disagree with your contention that there is “no outrage.” There have been several on-going efforts to blunt, if not eliminate, this element of gantsta rap music.

The late C. Delores Tucker led a national education/boycott effort in the late 90s to confront the issue. Rev. Calvin O. Butts, pastor of Abyssinian Baptist Church in NYC (and KAY member) led, and continues a similar effort on this front. Rev. Al Sharpton, and his National Action Network as recently as last year continued his work on this effort. It was discussed just this morning on Russ Parr show, how Sharpton urged the boycotting of a Tony Neyo, Yayo? (I’m not familiar with him, but drew contextually the fact that he’s a gansta rapper). By the way Sharpton was CRITICIZED on the Parr show for this effort.

That the mainstream media is unaware or not reporting on these efforts does not translate into “no outrage” in the black community. The national media elite, when it comes to the African American community, are always “late” to the party. And then want to walk in like the party didn’t start until they got there. Nor are the media’s hands clean here. Last night, on MSNBC’s Scarborough Country they referenced a New York Times music review (earlier this year, I think?) of some gangsta rap CD, which praised it be for being “a dynamic, gritty, urban call from the streets” or some such language. Yet, today the Times, the nation’s leading newspaper, is in the criticism choir, attempting to demean the Black community for gangsta rap’s rise. What are we to make of this?

While (for some odd reason) our community heavily consume gangsta rap (to our detriment), I’ve seen several reports -- for years -- suggesting that white teenagers are its biggest consumer. Now, since I don’t think it’s a “black” only problem, I’m not about to suggest it’s a white teenage problem either. But I haven’t seen any reporting saying it’s a white teenager problem. Have you?


I’m glad that the mainstream news community, albeit late, has now found its voice in defense of Black womanhood. But I don’t remember viewing/hearing too much reporting on the degradation of Black women in the weeks/months before Imus’s statement last week. Do you? And I wonder if the mainstream media will remain focused in its reporting on this issue after the Imus issue has subsided.


There are lots of aspects to this story and the bigger issue of race in America. But if we’re going to tell the story, then we might as well tell it all.

I think people just have trouble believing that the black community's mainstream leadership has been proactive in this, while they surely are regarding other issues (white on black racist speech).

[Little32]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I think people just have trouble believing that the black community's mainstream leadership has been proactive in this, while they surely are regarding other issues (white on black racist speech).

Question #1: Who are these leaders that your refer to? The people that we see on tv every time there is a need for a soundbite from a black face, or the activists, scholars, preachers, and less well-known community leaders that have been speaking about these issues for years?

Questions #2: Are we to be held responsible for or even to take into consideration people's "disbelief"? Or are those disbelieving folk to be held responsible for not educating themselves, as to how this issue has been and continues to be addressed by leaders on multiple levels in black communities, before proclaiming that nothing has been done?

I think TonyB's comments are right on target. As, of course, this is an issue of the denigration of Black Womanhood, I too am interested to see what happens when the hype about the white man at the center of this discussion fades.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Little32

Question #1: Who are these leaders that your refer to? The people that we see on tv every time there is a need for a soundbite from a black face, or the activists, scholars, preachers, and less well-known community leaders that have been speaking about these issues for years?

Questions #2: Are we to be held responsible for or even to take into consideration people's "disbelief"? Or are those disbelieving folk to be held responsible for not educating themselves, as to how this issue has been and continues to be addressed by leaders on multiple levels in black communities, before proclaiming that nothing has been done?

I think TonyB's comments are right on target. As, of course, this is an issue of the denigration of Black Womanhood, I too am interested to see what happens when the hype about the white man at the center of this discussion fades.

#1, I mean the people in the mainstream. Not the community leaders with limited following. Lets be honest, a lot of you guys on here are among the upper echelon in your communities. Well educated, well off, etc, same as the white people on here. You're much more likely to be in touch with the more subdued, responsible leaders within the black community. However, what I'm talking about are the leaders, like Sharpton and Jackson, who can mobilize large numbers quickly and act as the self-elected representatives of the black community.

#2, When it comes to disbelief, its either accept what people like you assert (those who think there isn't any double standard), or accept what they have seen over the years. Is it really mainstream if people have to "educate" themselves to find out about it?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

self-elected representatives of the black community.

Michael Jackson is the self-elected "King of Pop Music." So answer me 2 things:

-When's the last time you listened to pop (that is, popular, mainstream) music?

-When's the last time you listened to anything new by Michael Jackson?

I rest my case.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Little32

Question #1: Who are these leaders that your refer to? The people that we see on tv every time there is a need for a soundbite from a black face, or the activists, scholars, preachers, and less well-known community leaders that have been speaking about these issues for years?

Questions #2: Are we to be held responsible for or even to take into consideration people's "disbelief"? Or are those disbelieving folk to be held responsible for not educating themselves, as to how this issue has been and continues to be addressed by leaders on multiple levels in black communities, before proclaiming that nothing has been done?

I think TonyB's comments are right on target. As, of course, this is an issue of the denigration of Black Womanhood, I too am interested to see what happens when the hype about the white man at the center of this discussion fades.

You answered your own question while asking it.
Just who gets the face and/or air time?
Who do the politicians try to get close to?
And who gets time with the politicians?

[Lady of Pearl]

Forty years ago, Imus' remarks would not have been tolerated on national tv ; given the fact that our country was in the midst of the civil rights era. Also strong censorship and something known as the FCC wold not have allowed it to happen. So, have we digressed in the name of Free Speech? I don't care who makes denigrating remarks about Black women-Imus or the rappers, or the Boys on the Block, or construction workers. Harrassment and derogatory remarks about women is wrong. We need to look closely at what drives this misogynistic spirit in our country and seriously do some reeducating to all.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by jon1856

You answered your own question while asking it.
Just who gets the face and/or air time?
Who do the politicians try to get close to?
And who gets time with the politicians?

And I guess the answer to all of these question is more people than you know about, because there are a lot of people working in our communities who do not court publicity in the same ways that others do. Does that mean that they are not working as hard or excercising as much influence? I don't think it does.

So that you might conceptualize this a bit better, think about the heavy hitters in the white community--I presume you are white. Think about the people that you would say have a good deal of clout in your--meaning where you live--community. Are those the people that you see on the news discussing issues that impact your community? Are they the people that you always see in front of the cameras? If I were to say that John Edwards were a leader of white America, because he is a white man that gets a lot of camera time, I would get a lot of objections from a lot of conservatives who would say "he doesn't represent me", and those would be legitimate objections. He represents, perhaps, a faction of white Americans and perhaps a relatively small faction at that.

Now, take that concept and apply it to black communities. These people that you see in the news all of the time are not the only people representing us. Bottom line, there are a lot more people working behind the scenes, organizing protests, and taking action that you don't know about.

[aopirose]

Originally Posted by laylo

I don't quite understand when people say there is no outrage. That statement dismisses all the work that black feminist writers, activists, psychologists, and countless others have been doing for years regarding this issue. But in regards to them (Jesse, Al, hip hop artists, and whoever else is angry), yes, I think Black men should be held accountable for the use of this kind of language. However, this is the first time I've seen a White man being held accountable for it. Normally I only see Black men being called out for misogyny.

Originally Posted by TonyB06

HK,

I disagree with your contention that there is “no outrage.” There have been several on-going efforts to blunt, if not eliminate, this element of gantsta rap music.

The late C. Delores Tucker led a national education/boycott effort in the late 90s to confront the issue. Rev. Calvin O. Butts, pastor of Abyssinian Baptist Church in NYC (and KAY member) led, and continues a similar effort on this front. Rev. Al Sharpton, and his National Action Network as recently as last year continued his work on this effort. It was discussed just this morning on Russ Parr show, how Sharpton urged the boycotting of a Tony Neyo, Yayo? (I’m not familiar with him, but drew contextually the fact that he’s a gansta rapper). By the way Sharpton was CRITICIZED on the Parr show for this effort.

That the mainstream media is unaware or not reporting on these efforts does not translate into “no outrage” in the black community. The national media elite, when it comes to the African American community, are always “late” to the party. And then want to walk in like the party didn’t start until they got there. Nor are the media’s hands clean here. Last night, on MSNBC’s Scarborough Country they referenced a New York Times music review (earlier this year, I think?) of some gangsta rap CD, which praised it be for being “a dynamic, gritty, urban call from the streets” or some such language. Yet, today the Times, the nation’s leading newspaper, is in the criticism choir, attempting to demean the Black community for gangsta rap’s rise. What are we to make of this?

While (for some odd reason) our community heavily consume gangsta rap (to our detriment), I’ve seen several reports -- for years -- suggesting that white teenagers are its biggest consumer. Now, since I don’t think it’s a “black” only problem, I’m not about to suggest it’s a white teenage problem either. But I haven’t seen any reporting saying it’s a white teenager problem. Have you?


I’m glad that the mainstream news community, albeit late, has now found its voice in defense of Black womanhood. But I don’t remember viewing/hearing too much reporting on the degradation of Black women in the weeks/months before Imus’s statement last week. Do you? And I wonder if the mainstream media will remain focused in its reporting on this issue after the Imus issue has subsided.


There are lots of aspects to this story and the bigger issue of race in America. But if we’re going to tell the story, then we might as well tell it all.

Applause, Applause.

[laylo]

I don't quite understand when people say there is no outrage. That statement dismisses all the work that black feminist writers, activists, psychologists, and countless others have been doing for years regarding this issue. But in regards to them (Jesse, Al, hip hop artists, and whoever else is angry), yes, I think Black men should be held accountable for the use of this kind of language. However, this is the first time I've seen a White man being held accountable for it. Normally I only see Black men being called out for misogyny.

[laylo]

TonyB beat me to it.

ETA: I would add that the Black male voices were also late to the party.

[Zipcreature]

http://imushypocrisy.ytmnd.com/

That is all.

[BlueReign]

I don't think he should have lost his job. I don't like what he said but I think his apology was sufficient. I'm tired of living in the midst of "this language" everyday and I'm now getting to the point that I am immune to it. This should not be!! The bigger fight has not been fought on the scale that it should be. And I think it's time that we make it our business to address it. Good links worth reading:

http://www.kansascity.com/182/story/66339.html

http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/20...oker-t-and-xm/

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Honeykiss1974

Should we now shift our focus and outrage from IMUS to the rap industry?

*none of the following is directed toward Honeykiss*

That's been happening for over a decade.

Imus in neither a savior nor a catalyst for change as some misguided people have been claiming he is.

I was angered when I heard someone call Baisden's show and say "black people need to write a letter and THANK Imus." That's stupid and black people are falling into the same old trap of looking for saviors and false leaders to tell us what we need to be concerned with and when/how we need to act.

If folks are going to jump on the bandwagon and pretend that criticisms of the music industry are a brand new thing, I'm EXTREMELY disinterested.

But I hope those of you who are charged and excited about this "new" perspective keep it up. Change can take years to decades. Shortsighted people think nothing has been done or changed just because we still hear derogatory lyrics and see derogatory images.

Another annoying comment from Baisden's show: "Our ancestors would be rolling in their graves if they saw where we are now."

Uh...well...maybe not. That approach is as dumb as the "what would our Founders of our organizations say/think" comments. These people had certain opinions and left certain legacies. But we don't really know what the hell they'd say or do now. We need to be motivated on our own. Pay homage but don't get too stuck on holding seances to figure out if Harriet Tubman would be pissed at black people today.

*relax, relate, release.....*