Alabama Rush and First Cuts: Predetermined?

[Ladybugmom]

Originally Posted by justgo_withit

Could it be that she went bidless because she wasn't high enough on either bid list, and she told people/someone told her that to try and make it seem less personal? I mean we'll never know where she was on the bid lists, but unless someone reputable from Panhellenic told her that she was dropped because the computer kicked her out (possibly with a reference to that part of their guidelines, as I don't think that's the kind of thing they would intentionally keep secret from PNMs) I'm more inclined to think this is a case of a girl saving face.

My daughter is at UT, where they have guaranteed placement if you attend at least one pref party. This girl attended 3. The only thing I can think of is that if she attended 3 parties, but only listed 2, then she would be kicked out of the system...however, if she went to 3 parties, but only listed 1, that would be SIP... who knows, maybe she suicided and is not admitting to that??

[Greek_or_Geek?]

Originally Posted by Ladybugmom

I know of an instance at D's school last year where a girl attended 3 pref parties, but only listed 2 on her card..left the third one off on purpose, and was released completely...the computer kicked her out....
She later blamed it on the Rho G's for not explaining to her that this could/would happen.

This isn't correct. She attends a school with guaranteed placement. If she had listed all three, she would have received a bid from one, although probably the chapter she felt she was too good for. By not maximizing her options, she made herself ineligible for quota additions. The simple truth is she wasn't high enough on the other two groups' bid lists to receive a bid. There was no computer randomly "dropping" her or error.

[justgo_withit]

Originally Posted by Ladybugmom

My daughter is at UT, where they have guaranteed placement if you attend at least one pref party. This girl attended 3. The only thing I can think of is that if she attended 3 parties, but only listed 2, then she would be kicked out of the system...however, if she went to 3 parties, but only listed 1, that would be SIP... who knows, maybe she suicided and is not admitting to that??

What I'm confused about is why the computer would kick her out at all; it's not normal for panhellenic to make girls rank all of their pref invites. If that is how it works, I feel like it would've been clearly explained multiple times (in writing, in orientation meetings, before she signed the MRABA); panhellenic and the recruitment counselors want as many girls with bids as possible, so something important like "if you don't maximize your options, even with 3 pref parties, you absolutely won't get a bid" would've been told to the girls over and over again.

[Greek_or_Geek?]

Originally Posted by Ladybugmom

My daughter is at UT, where they have guaranteed placement if you attend at least one pref party. This girl attended 3. The only thing I can think of is that if she attended 3 parties, but only listed 2, then she would be kicked out of the system...however, if she went to 3 parties, but only listed 1, that would be SIP... who knows, maybe she suicided and is not admitting to that??

She wasn't kicked out of the system. She didn't play by the guaranteed placement rules and did not maximize her options. Please stop spreading incorrect information about a process that worked exactly the way it was supposed to.

[Ladybugmom]

Originally Posted by Greek_or_Geek?

She wasn't kicked out of the system. She didn't play by the guaranteed placement rules and did not maximize her options. Please stop spreading incorrect information about a process that worked exactly the way it was supposed to.

Excuse me..I wasnt spreading incorrect information...I have no idea what really happened..as I stated in my later post. This girl could have suicided and not told the real story.
I happen to know this family and was told that she went to 3 parties, but only listed 2 on her card. She got a call the morning of bid day and was told she was released...her Rho G told her, after the fact, that she was probably kicked out of the system because she did not list all 3 of her choices on her card..now this could have just been the Rho G telling her this to make her feel better, or this could have been the girl making this up to cover the fact that she suicided and didnt get her only choice. The mom was shocked because they were under the impression that if she attended at least one pref party, that she would get a bid somewhere...of course when the truth came out that she only listed 2 of her 3 choices, it made more sense.
The computer system is in no way to blame..that's not what I was trying to convey..obviously the girl didnt maximize her options.

The moral of the story is to listen to the rules very carefully when listing on your final pref card...

[Ladybugmom]

Originally Posted by justgo_withit

What I'm confused about is why the computer would kick her out at all; it's not normal for panhellenic to make girls rank all of their pref invites. If that is how it works, I feel like it would've been clearly explained multiple times (in writing, in orientation meetings, before she signed the MRABA); panhellenic and the recruitment counselors want as many girls with bids as possible, so something important like "if you don't maximize your options, even with 3 pref parties, you absolutely won't get a bid" would've been told to the girls over and over again.

I agree with you..I would think that there would be systems in place to prevent someone to only put 2 out of 3 choices in the computer...however it lets you put 1 out of 3 (SIP). My daughter also said that she was told many times that she needed to list all 3 chapters on her card so she was even baffled when we heard the story. I just wonder what would really happen if someone put 2 out of 3 on thier card..if the computer will even allow that? Anyone know if this is even possible? Im thinking this girl SIP and didnt want to tell her mom or anyone eles..

[arrowlady]

Originally Posted by Ladybugmom

My daughter is at UT, where they have guaranteed placement if you attend at least one pref party. This girl attended 3. The only thing I can think of is that if she attended 3 parties, but only listed 2, then she would be kicked out of the system...however, if she went to 3 parties, but only listed 1, that would be SIP... who knows, maybe she suicided and is not admitting to that??

I thought that guaranteed placement was only if you had a full schedule of 3 houses and put all 3 houses on your card? I am totally unfamiliar with UT's rules so I am just going off of what I have seen/heard at other campuses girls with only one pref party left not getting a house.

This gets me to thinking wouldn't it be nice if all the campuses followed the same quidelines...

[Ladybugmom]

Originally Posted by arrowlady

I thought that guaranteed placement was only if you had a full schedule of 3 houses and put all 3 houses on your card? I am totally unfamiliar with UT's rules so I am just going off of what I have seen/heard at other campuses girls with only one pref party left not getting a house.

This gets me to thinking wouldn't it be nice if all the campuses followed the same quidelines...

I think they do Arrowlady..I didnt mean to open a can of worms..lol..I have a feeling that the girl didnt tell the complete story and SIP..she still maintains to this day that she listed 2 of the 3 and was not given a bid...I guess the big question is if this is even possible and if so, could she really be thrown out of the system??

[WCsweet<3]

The Rho Gamma probably said that to make the girl feel better. Really explaining bid lists, quota additions and such is really not what they want to hear nor will it comfort them (learned that the hard way).

I was told that no program could be made to toss women out for SIPing or DIPing because those women who only had one or two options instead of three would get screwed and kicked out of the system.

[Greek_or_Geek?]

Originally Posted by arrowlady

I thought that guaranteed placement was only if you had a full schedule of 3 houses and put all 3 houses on your card? I am totally unfamiliar with UT's rules so I am just going off of what I have seen/heard at other campuses girls with only one pref party left not getting a house.

This gets me to thinking wouldn't it be nice if all the campuses followed the same quidelines...

It doesn't matter how many Pref parties you are invited to with guaranteed placement. As long as you attend all the parties you are invited to and list them all, you will receive a bid to one, even if you only had one invite. If you fail to list any chapter you visited at preference or fail to attend a party you're invited to, there's no guaranteed replacement. It is my experience that at these large competitive schools that offer guaranteed placement, this processs is explained over and over again. The PNMs simply don't believe they're not going to get a bid from the chapter they want. So they either hear "computer error blah blah" or create a legend to explain the lack of a bid.

Ladybugmom, you are posting a tale based on a second hand story that was told to you. That's gossip and not the way things really happened no matter what the PNM and her family were told or believe and subsequently told you. PNMs have enough things to worry about without having to be concerned with incorrect tales of being dropped by a computer system. Surely you can understand that?

Like I said before, the system worked exactly the way it was supposed to.

[justgo_withit]

Originally Posted by Ladybugmom

I agree with you..I would think that there would be systems in place to prevent someone to only put 2 out of 3 choices in the computer...however it lets you put 1 out of 3 (SIP). My daughter also said that she was told many times that she needed to list all 3 chapters on her card so she was even baffled when we heard the story. I just wonder what would really happen if someone put 2 out of 3 on thier card..if the computer will even allow that? Anyone know if this is even possible? Im thinking this girl SIP and didnt want to tell her mom or anyone eles..

No, what I was getting at was that there was no computer error and that the two groups she listed just didn't have her high enough on their bid lists. I've never heard of a CP forcing the girls to sign a binding agreement to every house they pref'd or else they would get no bid at all. Forcing a girl to sign a bid to a house that she thinks she has zero interest in (even though we all know that girl would probably make it work and come to love her sisterhood dearly) takes away the small "mutual selection" bit that the PNMs get to do.

[Greek_or_Geek?]

Originally Posted by Ladybugmom

I think they do Arrowlady..I didnt mean to open a can of worms..lol..I have a feeling that the girl didnt tell the complete story and SIP..she still maintains to this day that she listed 2 of the 3 and was not given a bid...I guess the big question is if this is even possible and if so, could she really be thrown out of the system??

Once again, you have to list ALL chapters to guarantee placement. Listing only two of three attended or SIPing have the same outcome if a PNM is not high enough on those bid lists. Game over. No bid. No kicking out of the system. No computer error.

[Ladybugmom]

Originally Posted by Greek_or_Geek?

Once again, you have to list ALL chapters to guarantee placement. Listing only two of three attended or SIPing have the same outcome if a PNM is not high enough on those bid lists. Game over. No bid. No kicking out of the system. No computer error.

That makes sense to me now.. So basically she SIPed, but with two chapters instead of 1..and neither of them had her high enough on thier bid list..so had she put the third one down, most likely she would have gotten that chapter.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Ladybugmom

That makes sense to me now.. So basically she SIPed, but with two chapters instead of 1..and neither of them had her high enough on thier bid list..so had she put the third one down, most likely she would have gotten that chapter.

Almost. Putting down 2 out of 3 chapters carries the same penalty as putting down a single chapter: you are no longer guaranteed a placement, or, more formally, you are not eligible to be a quota addition if you don't match. You may still get a placement, if you are high enough on a bid list, but if you are not high enough, you will go without a bid. That much is correct.

What is less clear is what happens if you list all three and aren't high enough on ANY of the bid lists to get a bid. In that case, you could end up in any one of the three chapters, depending on how quota additions are placed (and I don't know the rules at every school; it seems there is no uniform method).

This causes all sorts of confusion, because Rho Gams tell women that putting down your third choice gives you a better shot at getting a bid to your first or second choice, which may be technically true (as you can be placed in one of them as a quota addition, whereas you can't if you don't list all three), but it's a bad, bad, bad thing for a Rho Gam to say, because the chances of it happening are extremely small, as all three chapters would have to take quota without you matching somewhere. The far, far, far more likely outcome is that you'd match to your third-choice chapter, because the chapter PNM's dislike so much they won't even consider it is usually the chapter that also struggles to fill quota.

[AXOrushadvisor]

Originally Posted by justgo_withit

No, what I was getting at was that there was no computer error and that the two groups she listed just didn't have her high enough on their bid lists. I've never heard of a CP forcing the girls to sign a binding agreement to every house they pref'd or else they would get no bid at all. Forcing a girl to sign a bid to a house that she thinks she has zero interest in (even though we all know that girl would probably make it work and come to love her sisterhood dearly) takes away the small "mutual selection" bit that the PNMs get to do.

But I have heard of Rho Chi's telling girls that they have to list all the chapters they visited or they will get kicked out of the system which is essentially "forcing" them to list a chapter they may have zero interest in. In fact, when my niece was a Rho Chi at the University of Arizona that is what they told her to say to the PNM's. I told her that was absolutely not true. You can list one, two or three Chapters (not sure anyone does a 4 pref system) I don't think there is a system out there that kicks you our if you don't take full advantage of your options is there?