The Devil's Advocate: Imus/Rap industry

[Honeykiss1974]

Well I'm sure by now everyone has read or watched the Imus saga and now, the final outcome which is him being fired from CBS as well. But I wanted to create this thread because I'd like to play DV for a minute and just post a few thoughts I've had, so induldge me.

There are tons of very well known rappers/entertainers that use the exact same language as Imus when referring to women, but yet there is no outrage. In fact, they are rewarded with high record sales and endorsement deals. I would say that these types of people are even more damaging to our self esteem than Imus because of their large influence on our your people (shoot, old ones too). Men immulate the language thinking that is how you are supose to refer to women, while young women become immune to it and think its ok.

Should we now shift our focus and outrage from IMUS to the rap industry? If not, why do you consider one situation to be different from the other?

Let's discuss!

[TonyB06]

HK,

I disagree with your contention that there is “no outrage.” There have been several on-going efforts to blunt, if not eliminate, this element of gantsta rap music.

The late C. Delores Tucker led a national education/boycott effort in the late 90s to confront the issue. Rev. Calvin O. Butts, pastor of Abyssinian Baptist Church in NYC (and KAY member) led, and continues a similar effort on this front. Rev. Al Sharpton, and his National Action Network as recently as last year continued his work on this effort. It was discussed just this morning on Russ Parr show, how Sharpton urged the boycotting of a Tony Neyo, Yayo? (I’m not familiar with him, but drew contextually the fact that he’s a gansta rapper). By the way Sharpton was CRITICIZED on the Parr show for this effort.

That the mainstream media is unaware or not reporting on these efforts does not translate into “no outrage” in the black community. The national media elite, when it comes to the African American community, are always “late” to the party. And then want to walk in like the party didn’t start until they got there. Nor are the media’s hands clean here. Last night, on MSNBC’s Scarborough Country they referenced a New York Times music review (earlier this year, I think?) of some gangsta rap CD, which praised it be for being “a dynamic, gritty, urban call from the streets” or some such language. Yet, today the Times, the nation’s leading newspaper, is in the criticism choir, attempting to demean the Black community for gangsta rap’s rise. What are we to make of this?

While (for some odd reason) our community heavily consume gangsta rap (to our detriment), I’ve seen several reports -- for years -- suggesting that white teenagers are its biggest consumer. Now, since I don’t think it’s a “black” only problem, I’m not about to suggest it’s a white teenage problem either. But I haven’t seen any reporting saying it’s a white teenager problem. Have you?


I’m glad that the mainstream news community, albeit late, has now found its voice in defense of Black womanhood. But I don’t remember viewing/hearing too much reporting on the degradation of Black women in the weeks/months before Imus’s statement last week. Do you? And I wonder if the mainstream media will remain focused in its reporting on this issue after the Imus issue has subsided.


There are lots of aspects to this story and the bigger issue of race in America. But if we’re going to tell the story, then we might as well tell it all.

[laylo]

I don't quite understand when people say there is no outrage. That statement dismisses all the work that black feminist writers, activists, psychologists, and countless others have been doing for years regarding this issue. But in regards to them (Jesse, Al, hip hop artists, and whoever else is angry), yes, I think Black men should be held accountable for the use of this kind of language. However, this is the first time I've seen a White man being held accountable for it. Normally I only see Black men being called out for misogyny.

[laylo]

TonyB beat me to it.

ETA: I would add that the Black male voices were also late to the party.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by TonyB06

HK,

I disagree with your contention that there is “no outrage.” There have been several on-going efforts to blunt, if not eliminate, this element of gantsta rap music.

The late C. Delores Tucker led a national education/boycott effort in the late 90s to confront the issue. Rev. Calvin O. Butts, pastor of Abyssinian Baptist Church in NYC (and KAY member) led, and continues a similar effort on this front. Rev. Al Sharpton, and his National Action Network as recently as last year continued his work on this effort. It was discussed just this morning on Russ Parr show, how Sharpton urged the boycotting of a Tony Neyo, Yayo? (I’m not familiar with him, but drew contextually the fact that he’s a gansta rapper). By the way Sharpton was CRITICIZED on the Parr show for this effort.

That the mainstream media is unaware or not reporting on these efforts does not translate into “no outrage” in the black community. The national media elite, when it comes to the African American community, are always “late” to the party. And then want to walk in like the party didn’t start until they got there. Nor are the media’s hands clean here. Last night, on MSNBC’s Scarborough Country they referenced a New York Times music review (earlier this year, I think?) of some gangsta rap CD, which praised it be for being “a dynamic, gritty, urban call from the streets” or some such language. Yet, today the Times, the nation’s leading newspaper, is in the criticism choir, attempting to demean the Black community for gangsta rap’s rise. What are we to make of this?

While (for some odd reason) our community heavily consume gangsta rap (to our detriment), I’ve seen several reports -- for years -- suggesting that white teenagers are its biggest consumer. Now, since I don’t think it’s a “black” only problem, I’m not about to suggest it’s a white teenage problem either. But I haven’t seen any reporting saying it’s a white teenager problem. Have you?


I’m glad that the mainstream news community, albeit late, has now found its voice in defense of Black womanhood. But I don’t remember viewing/hearing too much reporting on the degradation of Black women in the weeks/months before Imus’s statement last week. Do you? And I wonder if the mainstream media will remain focused in its reporting on this issue after the Imus issue has subsided.


There are lots of aspects to this story and the bigger issue of race in America. But if we’re going to tell the story, then we might as well tell it all.

I think people just have trouble believing that the black community's mainstream leadership has been proactive in this, while they surely are regarding other issues (white on black racist speech).

[Little32]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I think people just have trouble believing that the black community's mainstream leadership has been proactive in this, while they surely are regarding other issues (white on black racist speech).

Question #1: Who are these leaders that your refer to? The people that we see on tv every time there is a need for a soundbite from a black face, or the activists, scholars, preachers, and less well-known community leaders that have been speaking about these issues for years?

Questions #2: Are we to be held responsible for or even to take into consideration people's "disbelief"? Or are those disbelieving folk to be held responsible for not educating themselves, as to how this issue has been and continues to be addressed by leaders on multiple levels in black communities, before proclaiming that nothing has been done?

I think TonyB's comments are right on target. As, of course, this is an issue of the denigration of Black Womanhood, I too am interested to see what happens when the hype about the white man at the center of this discussion fades.

[Zipcreature]

http://imushypocrisy.ytmnd.com/

That is all.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Little32

Question #1: Who are these leaders that your refer to? The people that we see on tv every time there is a need for a soundbite from a black face, or the activists, scholars, preachers, and less well-known community leaders that have been speaking about these issues for years?

Questions #2: Are we to be held responsible for or even to take into consideration people's "disbelief"? Or are those disbelieving folk to be held responsible for not educating themselves, as to how this issue has been and continues to be addressed by leaders on multiple levels in black communities, before proclaiming that nothing has been done?

I think TonyB's comments are right on target. As, of course, this is an issue of the denigration of Black Womanhood, I too am interested to see what happens when the hype about the white man at the center of this discussion fades.

#1, I mean the people in the mainstream. Not the community leaders with limited following. Lets be honest, a lot of you guys on here are among the upper echelon in your communities. Well educated, well off, etc, same as the white people on here. You're much more likely to be in touch with the more subdued, responsible leaders within the black community. However, what I'm talking about are the leaders, like Sharpton and Jackson, who can mobilize large numbers quickly and act as the self-elected representatives of the black community.

#2, When it comes to disbelief, its either accept what people like you assert (those who think there isn't any double standard), or accept what they have seen over the years. Is it really mainstream if people have to "educate" themselves to find out about it?

[aopirose]

Originally Posted by laylo

I don't quite understand when people say there is no outrage. That statement dismisses all the work that black feminist writers, activists, psychologists, and countless others have been doing for years regarding this issue. But in regards to them (Jesse, Al, hip hop artists, and whoever else is angry), yes, I think Black men should be held accountable for the use of this kind of language. However, this is the first time I've seen a White man being held accountable for it. Normally I only see Black men being called out for misogyny.

Originally Posted by TonyB06

HK,

I disagree with your contention that there is “no outrage.” There have been several on-going efforts to blunt, if not eliminate, this element of gantsta rap music.

The late C. Delores Tucker led a national education/boycott effort in the late 90s to confront the issue. Rev. Calvin O. Butts, pastor of Abyssinian Baptist Church in NYC (and KAY member) led, and continues a similar effort on this front. Rev. Al Sharpton, and his National Action Network as recently as last year continued his work on this effort. It was discussed just this morning on Russ Parr show, how Sharpton urged the boycotting of a Tony Neyo, Yayo? (I’m not familiar with him, but drew contextually the fact that he’s a gansta rapper). By the way Sharpton was CRITICIZED on the Parr show for this effort.

That the mainstream media is unaware or not reporting on these efforts does not translate into “no outrage” in the black community. The national media elite, when it comes to the African American community, are always “late” to the party. And then want to walk in like the party didn’t start until they got there. Nor are the media’s hands clean here. Last night, on MSNBC’s Scarborough Country they referenced a New York Times music review (earlier this year, I think?) of some gangsta rap CD, which praised it be for being “a dynamic, gritty, urban call from the streets” or some such language. Yet, today the Times, the nation’s leading newspaper, is in the criticism choir, attempting to demean the Black community for gangsta rap’s rise. What are we to make of this?

While (for some odd reason) our community heavily consume gangsta rap (to our detriment), I’ve seen several reports -- for years -- suggesting that white teenagers are its biggest consumer. Now, since I don’t think it’s a “black” only problem, I’m not about to suggest it’s a white teenage problem either. But I haven’t seen any reporting saying it’s a white teenager problem. Have you?


I’m glad that the mainstream news community, albeit late, has now found its voice in defense of Black womanhood. But I don’t remember viewing/hearing too much reporting on the degradation of Black women in the weeks/months before Imus’s statement last week. Do you? And I wonder if the mainstream media will remain focused in its reporting on this issue after the Imus issue has subsided.


There are lots of aspects to this story and the bigger issue of race in America. But if we’re going to tell the story, then we might as well tell it all.

Applause, Applause.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

self-elected representatives of the black community.

Michael Jackson is the self-elected "King of Pop Music." So answer me 2 things:

-When's the last time you listened to pop (that is, popular, mainstream) music?

-When's the last time you listened to anything new by Michael Jackson?

I rest my case.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Michael Jackson is the self-elected "King of Pop Music." So answer me 2 things:

-When's the last time you listened to pop (that is, popular, mainstream) music?

-When's the last time you listened to anything new by Michael Jackson?

I rest my case.

If you rest your case, then you lose on the merits. Completely irrelevant.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

If you rest your case, then you lose on the merits. Completely irrelevant.

You are just completely missing the point that just because Al Sharpton does this or that, doesn't mean 98% of the Black community (or the earth in general) gives a crap because he and/or the media have deemed him a "spokesman."

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by 33girl

You are just completely missing the point that just because Al Sharpton does this or that, doesn't mean 98% of the Black community (or the earth in general) gives a crap because he and/or the media have deemed him a "spokesman."

Uh, thats not even a point that needs making. I've said numerous times through this whole ordeal that I realize Sharpton and Co. don't represent all black people. However, he does mobilize them with ease, and he is a mainstream leader. I agree that the media aids him, but I simply think it would be false to say Sharpton and Jackson aren't extremely influential leaders within the black community.

[jubilance1922]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Uh, thats not even a point that needs making. I've said numerous times through this whole ordeal that I realize Sharpton and Co. don't represent all black people. However, he does mobilize them with ease, and he is a mainstream leader. I agree that the media aids him, but I simply think it would be false to say Sharpton and Jackson aren't extremely influential leaders within the black community.

I have no clue who these folks are that Sharpton "mobilized". The majority of African Americans that I know would actually prefer if Sharpton and Jackson stepped back sometimes instead of constantly leading the world to believe that they are "champions of all causes related to Black people".

As been mentioned, various individuals and groups have been vocal and outspoken about the language and images in rap music. But news channels don't care about that fight, they simply call up the two Black people they have on speed-dial, Sharpton and Jackson.

ETA: I don't know how "influential" they are either...

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by jubilance1922

I have no clue who these folks are that Sharpton "mobilized". The majority of African Americans that I know would actually prefer if Sharpton and Jackson stepped back sometimes instead of constantly leading the world to believe that they are "champions of all causes related to Black people".

As been mentioned, various individuals and groups have been vocal and outspoken about the language and images in rap music. But news channels don't care about that fight, they simply call up the two Black people they have on speed-dial, Sharpton and Jackson.

ETA: I don't know how "influential" they are either...

By mobilize, I mean at the snap of his fingers he can get a lot of black people supporting his side. Its been shown time and time again.

Honestly, do you really think there is a substantial portion of the black population willing to take a stand against rap music? If so, where is it? Frankly, I don't think there should be a stand against it, but this is a double standard discussion. I think people should be able to say what they want for the most part. I think the natural repercussions are generally sufficient.