Guidance

[nosnow2012]

(Warning, This is EXTREMELY LONG, so sorry)

Hi all,

I’m writing this post in hopes of getting some input from you all. So, I became a pledge at the first house I rushed at during my very first night as a freshman without really researching any other houses. The brothers who rushed me were really cool during this rush period. I rushed with a friend from back home and we signed our bids and all that together.

Pledgeship started and again, I connected with a majority of my pledge brothers. As time went on, pledgeship became moderately intense and time consuming at times in my opinion, I even considered stopping multiple times, but I powered through it. Slowly but surely, I started becoming less close with the brothers who rushed me, but we were still friendly. I met a bunch of other brothers in the house and connected with close to a dozen.

Close to midway through our pledgeship, some incidents occurred and allegations were strewn which landed us in hot water with the University and National. Thus, our social calendar was cancelled from mid-October to just about the end of the semester in December. Many of the fun activities the other brothers partook in (such as pledge dances and mixers) were denied to my pledge class (not to mention, I have seen the fraternity hold three presidents this semester). The pledge educators kept me in the dark for some time regarding what happened behind the scenes with National during this time. Apparently investigations were going on regarding possible hazing (something I found out through my father and a family friend belonging to a different fraternity at my school). There were instances where the actions taken by a few brothers during pledgeship activities could be construed as “hazing”, but I found them more fun than harmful.

At this point, initiation was set at an indefinite point as meetings began to be skipped at the Educator’s discretion (he admitted he was “extremely high” during some meetings and didn’t have his materials in order). I started lamenting going to the house during the small amount of free time I had because a majority of my pledge brothers began smoking pot with what seems to be ½ of the brothers at the house (I don’t smoke. I’m okay being around those who do at times, but this was going on every day…). Also, I feel I must say that drinking was of no problem (I’m fine with it).

I was still cool with my pledge brothers and grew pretty close to some, though I did have friends outside the fraternity. I found that I was not spending much time going out with people at my fraternity on weekends as many would just smoke. I would just hangout in the dorms with some friends during this time.

Towards the end of the semester, National met with our house and basically said our social calendar would be canceled until further notice if we did not get a certain number of people to live in the house next year. Immediately after this meeting, the brothers who did not normally talk to pledges began buddying-up and steering us to sign live-in contracts. I was planning on living in any way so this was not extremely bothersome to me. It did bother me, however, when our Educator and President demanded that we all sign a contract or else face depledging (this was about week 12 of the never-ending pledgeship). I felt that the brothers were waaaaay more interested in my money than accepting me as a new brother.

So, I am currently on winter break. I go back the 29th and I have been seriously considering depledging. I have been told that our hell week will be the week we return and will be initiated that weekend. I recently received an invoice for room and board from the fraternity due mid February, but I am not even a brother yet.

My reasoning for considering depledging:
-A majority of the house smokes pot and I don’t which could get really old realllly fast when living in.
-I feel that I rushed into pledging this fraternity (no pun intended) without really researching other fraternities.
-I feel like all I’m worth at this point is a check.
-The upperclassmen brothers are really douche-y.
-The house is EXTREMELY cliquey.
-Many of the brothers don’t seem to have much ambition (very Animal-House-esque).
-Not much philanthropy has taken place though I was told the house was a leader in events during my rush.
-This fraternity claims to have a high overall GPA, though it has not won distinction (they also don’t seem to care very much about giving pledges much time for studying during finals as the previous classes had hell weeks nearly during finals week).
-The house is literally a dump.
-Our social status is moderately low (the sororities we mix with are mediocre at best)
-I have friends in other fraternities that say I would be a perfect fit for them.
-I get excited thinking of not coming back to the house and trying my luck elsewhere next semester.
-I’ve heard brothers talk about “being done if we have another strike.” Which really concerns me.
-I don’t necessarily want to be associated with a house that has been put on probation.

What are your thoughts? I’m honestly fine with the idea of depledging even a week before my supposed initiation. I’m okay with pledging a second semester if it means a better situation for me. I currently have a “mentor brother” who I am pretty close with, but I still wouldn’t call him one of my best friends. I’m just one of those people who will do things which will benefit me more in life and other fraternities seem like they may be able to make me even more well-rounded than the one I am currently pledging. At this point I still have a ton of friends made through pledgeship, but I can’t help but wonder “what if”. Normally I would just go with the flow and settle for what I’ve gotten myself into, but lately in my life, I realize that I can at least attempt to do better.

So sorry for this novel of a situation.

-Drew

[ElieM]

You can de-pledge, but are you fine with not being greek anymore? And potentially not being Greek in the future?

Just because some buddies say you'd totally fit in and get a bid at their chapters, doesn't meant it will happen

[excelblue]

It doesn't sound like you have the bond. Remember that membership is for life.

However, only you should make the choice on whether or not to depledge.

[DubaiSis]

Unlike most people who come on here, it sounds like you've thought through this and your reasons for quitting seem reasonable. But I do think you should consider 2 things. The chapter probation period will end at some point and the douchy older guys will graduate. At that point, would your membership be worth saving? If not, then it's a pretty easy call.

But as ElieM said, just because you have buddies who have said you'd be a perfect fit doesn't mean you would actually get a bid for membership. We can all hope the best for you, but it is something you need to keep in mind. It sounds like your current membership is bad enough that nothing is better than what you have. But nothing IS what you could end up with.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Is there a chapter advisor or someone like that from whom you could get the real scoop on probation and whatever else? If the advisor is trying to save the chapter, he's obviously biased himself, but maybe he could at least get you some facts.

Also, do you have an idea of how the situation is perceived on your campus? In most cases, spending an entire semester with a fraternity and then dropping could look bad when you rush elsewhere. However, if the chapter is really on its last legs, I think other chapters may be more understanding of your reasons for leaving.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Also, do you have an idea of how the situation is perceived on your campus? In most cases, spending an entire semester with a fraternity and then dropping could look bad when you rush elsewhere. However, if the chapter is really on its last legs, I think other chapters may be more understanding of your reasons for leaving.

This is SO important as far as any future Greekdom for you is concerned. If the majority of the campus is not going to give a shit if these guys fold, you're OK, but if they're popular in spite of being a bit of a clusterfuck, your social status might be zero.

There's a big difference between being friends with someone and being brothers with them. It sounds like you did make some friends, but have yet to meet a brother.

This fraternity sounds a lot like one I hung out with for a while in college. The guys who fit in there loved it and are all still really tight after decades, but the guys who wanted something more than sitting around smoking up and watching Monty Python, not so much, and they probably wonder what if.

Good luck - I think you'll make the right decision.

(Oh and by the way, I heartily approve of your username)

[nosnow2012]

Originally Posted by ElieM

You can de-pledge, but are you fine with not being greek anymore? And potentially not being Greek in the future?

Just because some buddies say you'd totally fit in and get a bid at their chapters, doesn't meant it will happen

I understand that I risk forfeiting my chances of becoming Greek in the future by depledging, but I also have to take into account that I was capable of functioning for 18 years of my life before pledging and I will be able to function for the rest of my life if I do get rejected from other fraternities.

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

But I do think you should consider 2 things. The chapter probation period will end at some point and the douchy older guys will graduate...////But nothing IS what you could end up with.

I agree with your suggestions for consideration, but I am just very skeptical of where the future of this fraternity lies. Apparently we were on the verge of being shut down by the University four or five pledge classes ago. It seems as if there is a pattern of negligence and I just don't want to regret joining a house that ultimately fails in the next few semesters. We are constantly told that the house is what we make of it and that our pledge class can really "turn things around for our status on campus." I don't want to have to strengthen the house, I want the house to strengthen me! Also, the past brothers have severely frayed relationships with various sororities throughout the years. I have been told that there is an unspoken rule in which members of my house are not allowed to even speak with women of some sororities (pretty bogus in my opinion).

You are right, I could end up with nothing, but so far I haven't had problems with making friends outside of my current fraternity, in fact, I want to meet as many people as I can all over campus.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Is there a chapter advisor or someone like that from whom you could get the real scoop on probation and whatever else? If the advisor is trying to save the chapter, he's obviously biased himself, but maybe he could at least get you some facts.

Also, do you have an idea of how the situation is perceived on your campus? In most cases, spending an entire semester with a fraternity and then dropping could look bad when you rush elsewhere. However, if the chapter is really on its last legs, I think other chapters may be more understanding of your reasons for leaving.

There is a chapter advisor I have access to, but I can only picture him steering me to continue with the fraternity as he is an extremely devoted alumnus of the house. I often see him arguing with the current brothers when I'm at the house during their Chapter meetings. It's as if he ardently disapproves of nearly everything the recent cabinet has been doing which also concerns me.

Originally Posted by 33girl

This is SO important as far as any future Greekdom for you is concerned. If the majority of the campus is not going to give a shit if these guys fold, you're OK, but if they're popular in spite of being a bit of a clusterfuck, your social status might be zero.

This fraternity sounds a lot like one I hung out with for a while in college. The guys who fit in there loved it and are all still really tight after decades, but the guys who wanted something more than sitting around smoking up and watching Monty Python, not so much, and they probably wonder what if.

I go to a very large school where greek life is abundant. I don't know of nearly any of the brothers at my house interacting with members of other fraternities, so I'm not sure if word of my departure would spread hardly at all. Through what I've gathered during my first semester here, the house is not very popular. When talking about it with cousins who were involved in greek life at my school, they have not even heard of the house or give a quick grimace.

I fit in with the friends I've made so far, but they are a lot like those I had in high school who smoked. They are awesome to hang out with and are good guys, but at some point, I'm striving to be a part of something better. I like to think I have a ton of ambition and it would be awesome to be in the company of those who share my aspirations for success.


Thank you all for responding.
Again, sorry I write with lots of detail. Just my thinking of your responses.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Ultimately the choice is yours. However consider this. You have given a pretty big list of cons if you stay, but can you build any kind of list of pros? If not, your choice should be pretty clear.

[nosnow2012]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Ultimately the choice is yours. However consider this. You have given a pretty big list of cons if you stay, but can you build any kind of list of pros? If not, your choice should be pretty clear.

You are right, I have listed many cons and I am fully aware of this. Though, all throughout my pledgeship I have coercively persuaded myself to stay with the fraternity with ideas which have included:
• If i just make it through this semester I'll be done cleaning/ pledging and I will have free time which will be awesome. (a large motivator)
• The ability to party in a safe* environment. (*Rule free)
• The ability to get alcohol from a brother when I find an occasion calls for it.
• The "promise" of meeting and developing friendships/etc. with women as a house. (We haven't had a real social event since October.)
• Being able to call 30+ other pledge brothers your friend.
• Having a place to live next semester.
• Living with my pledge brothers.


I guess what I'm asking is if it's okay that I depledge after an entire semester if I have just now realized my heart is not 100% devoted to this place. Is it absolutely horrible that I have just now come to this conclusion?

[33girl]

It's better to do it now, than to go through with initiation and go inactive directly after. And I know you know this, but you can get those "pros" at any fraternity.

If anyone should ask when you're going through rush again why you did what you did, just be honest and say "I didn't look around enough when I rushed initially, and I liked the guys I met at XYZ and thought that was enough. I really wanted it to work, but I came to the hard decision that it just wasn't the right place for me. I hope everything works out well for them."

If next semester, you rush a fraternity that is intent on running down the one you're currently pledging/depledged - steer clear. They may be the same sow's ear dressed as a silk purse. The above should be the answer to the question and the subject closed.

[lucgreek]

Your pledge process being longer than 12 weeks (and spanning more than a semester) is raising my risk management flags. The fact that they are trying to get you to sign contract to live in the house BEFORE you're even initiated is also raising some flags (GCers who have more experience with housing, feel free to correct me if this is standard practice).

Based on these things and the fact the organization is under the microscope of the national organization, as well as the structure of your pledgeship seemingly falling apart, I would have strong reservations about initiating into this group. I'd definitely touch base with a chapter or faculty adviser or someone from the national organization and see what the story really is.

[etadrisophila]

It seems that you've already made your decision. The challenging part (and perhaps the part that you are truly struggling with) is how to inform your pledge brothers and the active brothers.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I can't remember a single time that someone has come onto GC talking about dropping during pledgeship, and so many people supporting that, so I re-read the OP to see why. Things like "not enough social events" and "I'm not that close to all of the guys" are not good reasons to drop. However, stuff like "the collegians are not listening to their HQ or their alumni", "everyone is a stoner", are things that could really stand in the way of a good fraternity experience. I think you already know what you want to do.

[DubaiSis]

DBB, I agree that it's odd for people to support dropping (I'm definitely a stick it out kind of a gal) but to me it seems like he's really thought it out and his reasons for staying are just not good enough.

My suggestion, if reality matches the way this thread reads, is get out now before you spend any more precious time on a losing situation. It's going to suck no matter when you do it, so you might as well get on with the sucking and awkwardness and see what happens next. IF another fraternity is going to be open to taking you, they're going to be more open to it as a younger guy who's not too entrenched in the old group.

You seem to have a good head on your shoulders and I wish you luck. Let us know how it goes and what happens next.

[lucgreek]

I hate telling people to throw in the towel, but if what he says is all true, the group he's pledging is not long for his campus. Better to drop now than get initiated next semester and find out your HQ is shutting you down after next semester.

I don't want him to come back to GC with a, "Just initiated last month, HQ is now shutting us down. Help!" thread.