Is making a pledge sing hazing?

[deta]

I'm usually a lurker, and this will be my second post since Fall of 09, so please no heavy mocking. My fraternity as most is part of NIC, and has a strict 'no hazing' policy. Many of my brothers have taken that as a no physical contact rule, and have started other forms of 'testing' or penalties for wrong answers. One of these is singing in public or in private if a pledge does an act that is against the rules or gets an answer wrong.

The songs are usually child hood nursery rhymes, pop-music, etc. As far as I can tell it serves no real benefit, other than humoring the brothers. On the other hand, no pledge in the last year or so has had any qualms with it. I'm just curious if it can be considered hazing?

[TGTKPinkWhalepq]

IS it degrading to the pledges? Would you feel comfortable having them do this in front of their family and friends?

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by deta

I'm usually a lurker, and this will be my second post since Fall of 09, so please no heavy mocking. My fraternity as most is part of NIC, and has a strict 'no hazing' policy. Many of my brothers have taken that as a no physical contact rule, and have started other forms of 'testing' or penalties for wrong answers. One of these is singing in public or in private if a pledge does an act that is against the rules or gets an answer wrong.

The songs are usually child hood nursery rhymes, pop-music, etc. As far as I can tell it serves no real benefit, other than humoring the brothers. On the other hand, no pledge in the last year or so has had any qualms with it. I'm just curious if it can be considered hazing?

If it serves no purpose, why are they doing it?

[HawaiiTKE]

Yes. It is a form of hazing.

[DSTRen13]

Originally Posted by deta

One of these is singing in public or in private if a pledge does an act that is against the rules or gets an answer wrong.

If it bothers you, then why are you doing things against the rules and getting answers wrong?

[IrishLake]

If the pledges feels demoralized, humiliated, embarassed, etc., then YES, it would be considered hazing.

Doing it in public is about stupid. That's a really good way for someone else to call your Nationals/HQ, and say "we witnessed one of your pledges being made to sing in the Student Union on 4/15/11. Here is the video we took, or you could come here yourself and see firsthand."

[Kevin]

Are you part of a national organization with a hazing policy? Consult that.

If not, consult your student code of conduct and state and local laws.

These folks are telling you what is hazing for them. Hazing is not something with a concrete definition.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Are you part of a national organization with a hazing policy? Consult that.

If not, consult your student code of conduct and state and local laws.

These folks are telling you what is hazing for them. Hazing is not something with a concrete definition.

!!! for emphasis.

[Monarca7]

Its hazing....but everthing is...

[agzg]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Are you part of a national organization with a hazing policy? Consult that.

If not, consult your student code of conduct and state and local laws.

These folks are telling you what is hazing for them. Hazing is not something with a concrete definition.

Also, see campus rules and state law, if applicable.

[AZTheta]

Am I the only one who read the thread title and thought "I can haz cheezburger?" Been reading too many grammar books lately, I guess.

Research is focusing on training grammatical forms so I'm seeing grammatical errors everywhere.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Are you part of a national organization with a hazing policy? Consult that.

If not, consult your student code of conduct and state and local laws.

These folks are telling you what is hazing for them. Hazing is not something with a concrete definition.

Just to emphasize again.

[excelblue]

Yeah, it all depends on which definition of hazing you use.

However, more importantly, why are you doing anything if it doesn't serve a clear purpose and have solid results?

There are places where road trips and scavenger hunts are considered hazing (thankfully, not my campus). There are times where singing can be hazing, but there are also times where making them work out until they're sore all over isn't.

Other posters have covered why singing, in your situation, is hazing. I'd consider it hazing too.

As for how you can make pledges work out until they're sore while not having it be considered hazing: they show up and work out with some of the more athletic brothers.

[AGDee]

The word "making" always raises a red flag to me because of the connotation.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by AGDee

The word "making" always raises a red flag to me because of the connotation.

The word "making" reminds me of pooping.