Awkward Aspirants/Awkward Situations

Senusret I · #1 02-02-2010, 09:33 AM

This is intended for people in organizations that have the following type of membership process: Research, pick an org, attend events, get to know members, get invited to pledging or intake.

So have you ever had an aspirant in your life who was just plain awkward and green and you found yourself really annoyed by them every time you saw them, especially if they're your coworker.

Yeah, that.

DrPhil · #2 02-02-2010, 09:38 AM

I had aspirants like that as a collegiate and know some like that as an alumnae.

I understand being nervous and awkward/saying and doing dumb stuff because I was TERRIFIED as an aspirant despite the fact that so many Deltas were my closest friends.

But, after you give someone nice hints or teach them through silence, it is their job to put on their grown adult pants and THINK before they speak and act. At the same time, when I see an awkward aspirant at an event or at work, I ask myself "where did she get that from? I'm sure a member told her that was cool or she read it somewhere." I can't be mad at her because she did some kind of research--and it isn't her fault that SOME members like her approach while OTHERS don't.

Senusret I · #3 02-02-2010, 10:17 AM

I agree with all that.

I pretty much had to ask an aspirant at my job to leave me alone because I wasn't there to give him advice on how to be an Alpha. I gave him a referral to somebody who might give a damn.

LadySunshine · #4 02-02-2010, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I gave him a referral to somebody who might give a damn.

Now that right there is pure comedy.

For some of these people, I just think to myself "good God is discretion a lost art form?" Am I hearing things correctly? I mean even if you don't know all the proper protocol is it really flattering or helpful to your case for you to tell me how pissy drunk you were last night, did XYZ and in the next breath ask so when is the next line? (in front of not only me but your boss, I mean do you value your job let alone trying to pledge?)
Also not a fan of facebook wall posts inquiring about membership or general stalkerness. (yes I did just make up a word

)

DrPhil · #5 02-02-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadySunshine

or helpful to your case for you to tell me how pissy drunk you were last night, did XYZ and in the next breath ask so when is the next line? (in front of not only me but your boss, I mean do you value your job let alone trying to pledge?)
Also not a fan of facebook wall posts inquiring about membership or general stalkerness. (yes I did just make up a word

)

Let the record show that I have never experienced either of these with an aspirant.

That is probably an age difference.

LadySunshine · #6 02-02-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Let the record show that I have never experienced either of these with an aspirant.

That is probably an age difference.

Maybe it is. I would love to see discretion classes and how to carry yourself 101 202 and 300 taught from an early age. Are you volunteering Dr. Phil? lol

DrPhil · #7 02-02-2010, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadySunshine

Maybe it is. I would love to see discretion classes and how to carry yourself 101 202 and 300 taught from an early age. Are you volunteering Dr. Phil? lol

No, I'm not a role model and especially not for people over the age of 18.

They will learn just as the rest of us learned and continue to learn. You trip up, brush yourself off, and learn...usually to trip up again.

tld221 · #8 02-02-2010, 11:27 AM

I've never had this happen at work, but what about that friend who all of their friends (or a good portion) are Greek and feel super entitled?

I got one of those - always the first at the step shows and probates and claiming "i might as well be down, i've known yall since forever." She goes around spitting people's history, wearing color combinations and what not.

I think people only tolerate it because she's cute and otherwise, such a sweetheart.

chickenoodle · #9 02-02-2010, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tld221

I've never had this happen at work, but what about that friend who all of their friends (or a good portion) are Greek and feel super entitled?

I got one of those - always the first at the step shows and probates and claiming "i might as well be down, i've known yall since forever." She goes around spitting people's history, wearing color combinations and what not.

I think people only tolerate it because she's cute and otherwise, such a sweetheart.

There's a girl who comes around my chapter and says stuff like this. Apparently she is in a qualifying major (business fraternity = business major), knows several brothers and comes to some events. My guess is she wants the benefits of membership without actually going through the whole process. During recruitment this person suggested we make her our mascot since she's "always around."

sigmadiva · #10 02-02-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senusret I

This is intended for people in organizations that have the following type of membership process: Research, pick an org, attend events, get to know members, get invited to pledging or intake.

So have you ever had an aspirant in your life who was just plain awkward and green and you found yourself really annoyed by them every time you saw them, especially if they're your coworker.

Yeah, that.

I think that you are taking the wrong perspective to this situation.

See, back in the old'n days, pre-MIP, this type of behavior was tolerated, and for some members and chapters, even expected. It was called "pre-hazing / pre-pledging" - a way to see who was really serious about pursuing membership. So the awkward aspirant was not unusual. It was considered normal.

Now, in the era of MIP (i.e., "prevent lawsuits"), NPHC members are encouraged (or should be, anyway) to not interact with the awkward aspirant. I don't think that the awkward aspirant is a new phenomenon, it's just that how we as NPHC members are allowed to interact with them have changed. So we have changed, not them.

MexicanMami0286 · #11 02-02-2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I think that you are taking the wrong perspective to this situation.

See, back in the old'n days, pre-MIP, this type of behavior was tolerated, and for some members and chapters, even expected. It was called "pre-hazing / pre-pledging" - a way to see who was really serious about pursuing membership. So the awkward aspirant was not unusual. It was considered normal.

Now, in the era of MIP (i.e., "prevent lawsuits"), NPHC members are encouraged (or should be, anyway) to not interact with the awkward aspirant. I don't think that the awkward aspirant is a new phenomenon, it's just that how we as NPHC members are allowed to interact with them have changed. So we have changed, not them.

Understood, but there should still be a level of appropriateness. I don't think work is an appropriate time or place for such discussions, like Sen pointed out.

I don't think when I'm sitting in the library trying to do work is an appropriate place for such discussions. I don't think when I'm holding office hours to talk about student papers is an appropriate time for such discussions. And Facebook ain't damn sure the appropriate method to approach me. (True Story).

Also, the majority of the aspirants that have approached me in similar situations weren't aware of the pre-MIP culture of pre-pledging (I asked history questions) and were just...awkward.

sigmadiva · #12 02-02-2010, 03:18 PM

You're right. But, my point was that pre-MIP the actions of the awkward aspirant would not seem so inappropriate and unexpected. Now, yes it would.

And, it is still up to the individual member to talk to the aspirant. If you (the general you and you, MexicanMami0286) don't want to entertain the questions, then don't. Just politely refer that person to the chapter / IHQ website and /or the Membership Chair of your chapter. You don't have to have a whole dialog with these people.

Also, if people know that you are a member, then they will approach you, no matter when. You don't want to be bothered at certain times, but they don't know that if they don't really know you. If anything, I would think that it would be a bit flattering when people run you down to ask questions. They see something in you that they want to be like.

DrPhil · #13 02-02-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigmadiva

I think that you are taking the wrong perspective to this situation.

See, back in the old'n days, pre-MIP, this type of behavior was tolerated, and for some members and chapters, even expected. It was called "pre-hazing / pre-pledging" - a way to see who was really serious about pursuing membership. So the awkward aspirant was not unusual. It was considered normal.

It is still considered normal. That doesn't make it any less of an awkward aspirant.

This isn't about pre-MIP vs. MIP nor about "pre-hazing/pre-pledging."

DrPhil · #14 02-02-2010, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MexicanMami0286

I don't think when I'm sitting in the library trying to do work is an appropriate place for such discussions. I don't think when I'm holding office hours to talk about student papers is an appropriate time for such discussions.

I don't think those are awkward places to have discussions if you know the person and/or if the person finds a non-annoying way to ask you a question. It's about how the person approaches each situation and how I'm feeling on that day.

Another example is that I have seen aspirants try to shake members' hands at rush. Well, that makes sense if they don't know many of the members, but multiply that aspirant by the tons of aspirants who attend some chapters' rushes. Shaking all of those hands can feel like a politician and can get annoying very quickly. That isn't the aspirant's fault unless they miss the hints and become awkward about it. I've also seen aspirants at events who wouldn't look members in their faces, which is based on what they've heard they should do and how it is at some chapters both pre-MIP and MIP. However, it makes more sense to me to just be respectful and business-like which includes looking me in the eyes when I try to speak to you. Not doing so can be interpreted as being rude or feeling you have something better to do. Again, depends on the context.

ETA: I typed pre-MIP and MIP but it isn't so easily dichotomized. Pre-MIP encompasses many decades and people from every decade see how things changed in the following decade. Someone who pledged in 1960 thinks their pre-MIP is way different than someone who pledged in 1980. And in every decade, they had "awkward aspirants."

sigmadiva · #15 02-02-2010, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It is still considered normal. That doesn't make it any less of an awkward aspirant.

True.

Quote:

This isn't about pre-MIP vs. MIP nor about "pre-hazing/pre-pledging."

For me it is. I came in pre-MIP and had to adjust to MIP. So for me, I'm used to dealing with the 'awkward aspirant' because I don't think it is that unusual or shocking. I also came in as an undergrad, so it was very normal for people to just walk up to you and talk to you about joining.

So, from my perspective I think Sen just over-reacted. *shrugs*