Recs aren't [are!] necessary

[Parfait]

Why do universities have to say recs aren't required even when they are at some schools? Do they have to say recs are not required as in a legal reason?

I've been reading through this board but I can't really find the answer, if there's a thread I'd like to read it. It's been on the brain awhile, although isn't really all that important.

[Titchou]

It has been said and am sure someone will take the time to give you some links.

In the meantime, not all 26 NPC groups require - as part of their national policy - recs. The majority do though. However, on some campuses, esp SEC ones, so many women go thru recruitment that the only way to have any sort of competitive edge is to be sure and have them. When cuts are made after first round, the groups will know more about you than they found out in a 30 minute ice water tea. It just isn't feasible for the individual groups who require them to go thru the process of getting them for 1500 women.

That being said, the college PH, as an extension of NPC, cannot tell the PNMs that recs are required as they have to reflect NPC. And since NPC can't say you have to have them - as the individual groups determine what you have to have to join them - the CPH has to follow the parent organization.

[honeychile]

Surely there's a way to say "while we say that you do not need recs to have a successful recruitment, those who have them are 100,000 times more likely to have a better recruitment experience."

[agzg]

Well, because they're bound to NPC, and to say what NPC says to say, I'm glad at least the Alumnae Panhellenics and places like GC are around to tell PNMs the truth, that recs are necessary at a lot of these schools.

Unfortunately, PNMs that are not "in-the-know" and don't stumble upon GC are left out of the loop, and their recruitument possibilities are cut because they just don't know.

My rule of thumb is that if the school's greek life or recruitment page mentions recs at all, they're probably pretty common on that campus and a PNM should try to secure them herself, even if they say it's the responsibility of the chapters to get them. This isn't true all the time (some school websites where we KNOW they need them don't mention them at all), but it works in a lot of cases.

I've never seen a non-competitive school mention recs in any way, shape, or form. This was how I ended up being a recruitment counselor for 2 years and didn't know anything about recs, even though I was on GC I wasn't too active a poster until after I finished grad school.

[AZ-AlphaXi]

Here's the paragraph in the NPC Manual

Letters of Recommendation (B-1992)
The responsibility for providing letters of recommendation for prospective
new members rests with the members of NPC fraternities, and recruitment
information distributed through College and Alumnae Panhellenics shall
contain nothing that infers that letters of recommendation must be secured
by the potential new member.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by AZ-AlphaXi

Here's the paragraph in the NPC Manual

Letters of Recommendation (B-1992)
The responsibility for providing letters of recommendation for prospective
new members rests with the members of NPC fraternities, and recruitment
information distributed through College and Alumnae Panhellenics shall
contain nothing that infers that letters of recommendation must be secured
by the potential new member.

Thanks...just didn't want to take the time to look it up.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AZ-AlphaXi

Here's the paragraph in the NPC Manual

Letters of Recommendation (B-1992)
The responsibility for providing letters of recommendation for prospective
new members rests with the members of NPC fraternities, and recruitment
information distributed through College and Alumnae Panhellenics shall
contain nothing that infers that letters of recommendation must be secured
by the potential new member.

Okay, obviously not my bailiwick, but I'm just trying to understand, especially since this is so often a topic of discussion here.

Reading the paragraph above, it seems to me that it's saying that providing/secruring recommendations is a responsibility of collegiate members and/or alumnae, not of PNMs, and that PNMs can't be told it's their responsibility. That seems to be a little different from saying that PNMs can't be told recs are necessary. Am I missing something?

And if I am, what's the reason behind a blanket rule that PNMs can't be told that recs are needed when some organizations require them? Why wouldn't the rule be that PNMs should be told that rules about the necessity of recs vary from organization to organization?

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Okay, obviously not my bailiwick, but I'm just trying to understand, especially since this is so often a topic of discussion here.

Reading the paragraph above, it seems to me that it's saying that providing/secruring recommendations is a responsibility of collegiate members and/or alumnae, not of PNMs, and that PNMs can't be told it's their responsibility. That seems to be a little different from saying that PNMs can't be told recs are necessary. Am I missing something?

And if I am, what's the reason behind a blanket rule that PNMs can't be told that recs are needed when some organizations require them? Why wouldn't the rule be that PNMs should be told that rules about the necessity of recs vary from organization to organization?

First of all, there is no "rule" that PNMs can't be told some groups require recs for a bid. Don't know where you got that. What the CPH can't say is that you have to get them yourself. It violates the NPC rule that was quoted previously from the Manual of Information (aka Green Book). Anything beyond that is private MS information and no one here is going to give that out.

Can you get a bid at an SEC school without securing recs for yourself? Sure. But do you really, really want to leave it to chance that you are going to be that 1 person a year out of 1500 women who does when this is your probably your only chance at recruitment? If you are that great, don't you really want a letter of introduction (a rec) sent to the chapter ahead of time so they can be ready for Your Highness's visit???? (Yes, that's tacky but I'm going to leave it in)

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Titchou

First of all, there is no "rule" that PNMs can't be told some groups require recs for a bid. Don't know where you got that.

I got it from lots of comments on this forum, such as this one in the OP:

Originally Posted by Parfait

Why do universities have to say recs aren't required even when they are at some schools? Do they have to say recs are not required as in a legal reason?

and this one by MaggieXi in the now-locked thread about the disappointing high school experience:

I'll reiterate what everyone else has says: The Greek Life office HAS to tell you that recs aren't necessary.

Oh, and I also got it from this you said:

Originally Posted by Titchou

That being said, the college PH, as an extension of NPC, cannot tell the PNMs that recs are required as they have to reflect NPC. And since NPC can't say you have to have them - as the individual groups determine what you have to have to join them - the CPH has to follow the parent organization.

If you'll notice, I was asking if I was understanding what y'all are saying, and what the Green Book says, correctly.

What the CPH can't say is that you have to get them yourself. It violates the NPC rule that was quoted previously from the Manual of Information (aka Green Book).

That's what I was asking for clarification about. But posts like the ones I quoted seem to suggest a broader proscription about what can't be said -- that PNMs can't be told recs are necessary at a given school, even if everyone who knows anything knows they really are. Hence, my desire to understand the rules better.

Anything beyond that is private MS information and no one here is going to give that out.

And now it's my turn: I don't know where, by my asking for clarification about the rule on what CPHs can and can't tell PNMs regarding recs, you thought I was asking anything about private member selection.

[PNM_fashionista]

I'm a PNM, so I don't want to butt in with opinions, but I thought some of y'all might like to see what the current recruitment guides at a few SEC schools actually say regarding recs.

"Recommendations/References forms are specific to each sorority, and we suggest that each Potential New Member (PNM) try to secure at least one Recommendation/Reference on the sorority’s official form for each of the 15 chapters that are participating in fall Sorority Recruitment. It is common to send multiple Recommendation/Reference to one sorority from separate alumnae; however, it is unnecessary to exceed three. Use personal discretion when deciding how many you will send."

"It is important to have ONE letter of recommendation per house. Chapters have strict rules requiring that they give top consideration to those applicants who have recs."

"While it is recommended that you secure
as many recs as possible, remember that it is ultimately not
your obligation to solicit recs so don’t worry if you can’t
find a letter for a certain sorority – the sororities will also
be looking for recs on you. Sometimes it can be difficult for
sororities to secure recs for all PNMs so it is extremely
helpful to them for you to send in recs."

"Similar to the references that one might have when applying for a job, a recommendation introduces a potential member to a sorority chapter. It is simply a supplement to the information that the chapter will receive through the Panhellenic Recruitment Registration form. Think of obtaining a recommendation as completing extra credit for class. You can succeed without it, but it never hurts to try."

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AZ-AlphaXi

Here's the paragraph in the NPC Manual

Letters of Recommendation (B-1992)
The responsibility for providing letters of recommendation for prospective
new members rests with the members of NPC fraternities, and recruitment
information distributed through College and Alumnae Panhellenics shall
contain nothing that infers that letters of recommendation must be secured
by the potential new member.

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

It's not your school that requires them, it's individual organizations, and it could be that all the organizations on your campus happen to require them.

Hopefully the Recruitment Counselors will be able to step in and let PNM's know they need recs.

This is exactly it.

Panhellenic - the entity - does NOT require women to secure recs to participate in formal recruitment. All it requires is that you be female, be an enrolled student, pay your fee, and have whatever GPA is required.

Formal recruitment is an event run by panhellenic. It is NOT the only way to join a NPC sorority. This is evidenced by the fact that at some campuses, there are NPC sororities who do NOT participate in it. If Boo Boo Mu wants to do that, they are more than allowed to put on their personal webpage, brochures and a t-shirt, "You must have a letter of recommendation from an alumna of Boo Boo Mu to become a member. If we really like you, we might go out and get one for you; but that's kind of a pain in the ass for us, so you'd probably make more points with us if you went out and got it yourself."

This disconnect could conceivably be remedied if all the NPC groups were to tell NPC their exact membership selection policies. However, I don't see that ever happening.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Titchou

MysticCat: You asked why PNMs can't be told that SOME groups require recs. That is the question I was answering...not whether recs are required for the campus.

Actually, that's not the question I asked, at least not the main question. DF is exactly, right. From many of the posts lately, including yours, the clear impression was being given that CPJs must tell PNMs that recs are not required. Period.

After the language from the Green Book was posted, I specifically saying that I was trying to understand this conversation and asked:

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Reading the paragraph above, it seems to me that it's saying that providing/securing recommendations is a responsibility of collegiate members and/or alumnae, not of PNMs, and that PNMs can't be told it's their responsibility. That seems to be a little different from saying that PNMs can't be told recs are necessary. Am I missing something?

You actually answered that question, although you didn't acknowledge that it was what I had asked.

Originally Posted by Titchou

First of all, there is no "rule" that PNMs can't be told some groups require recs for a bid. Don't know where you got that. What the CPH can't say is that you have to get them yourself.

Then you somehow went to membership selection, about which I asked zilch.

I did then ask another two additional questions:

And if I am [missing something], what's the reason behind a blanket rule that PNMs can't be told that recs are needed when some organizations require them? Why wouldn't the rule be that PNMs should be told that rules about the necessity of recs vary from organization to organization?

I think it's pretty clear that the second question (why not say some groups) was related to the first (if I'm missing something, what's the reason for the rule). Simple answer would have been "They can say some orgs require recs." But instead, you went with wondering where I got the idea they couldn't say that.

I only know what you say, not what you mean to say.

You really need to give that line a rest. It's not working for you.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Actually, that's not the question I asked, at least not the main question. DF is exactly, right. From many of the posts lately, including yours, the clear impression was being given that CPJs must tell PNMs that recs are not required. Period.

Recs are not required to participate in formal rush, which is an event run by the college Panhellenic. Therefore the CP can't tell rushees they must have them.

College Panhellenics cannot tell PNMs it's their responsibility to secure recs because they don't know for sure if individual NPC groups require them as a condition of receiving a bid.

You really have to think of Panhellenic as a completely separate entity, and then it makes more sense.

[FSUZeta]

abbiedae,

girls who don't have recs. or have not bothered to secure recs. for themselves are taking a chance on being asked back to the next round of parties-especially at schools with competitive recruitment and/or large numbers of pnms.

there probably is the rare instance where a girl makes it all the way through to prefs. and gets a bid, but those instances will be few and far between. if that happens, and the rules of the sorority require that a girl have a rec. before she can be pledged, then an alumna will write one for her. i do know of more instances where girls did not think they had recs., but they actually did, either thru requests made by their mother or another relative or friend.

i also know of too, too many times where great girls did not have recs. and because the chapter had to drop xxx amount of pnms after the first round of parties, they got dropped.

[abbeydae]

Well at my school, you're required to have a rec letter in order to get a bid. If I didn't have older friends, I never would have known that.

The university said that "Letters of Recommendation are encouraged, but not required." I asked if they were necessary at a Greek Q&A and my Gamma/Rho Chi's said they absolutely are. Over half of the girls in my group did not know we needed one, and one half of those girls had no idea what a rec letter is.

Can the university say that and still require them for a bid?