Ignorance=Judgement

[Jeremy121588]

Alright just a few notes before I get into this, i am using the word ignorance in the term its meant to be, not knowing, also this is more of a vent and I want to hear your opinions and similar experiences

I was discussing with my friend today about the idea of joining the FreeMasons, we were talking about how we would like to join in the future and how it would be a good experience. Then another girl was explaining how she was told in mason initation cermony they have pages left out that are meant to be told orally and never written down, I agreed and said fraternities and sororities were like this also. Then the guy I was having the original discussion with in the first place said and I quote, "Yeah, but the freemasons is different, at least they try to make a difference in the world." He then went on this rant about how greek life is nothing but a huge drinking club and we pay dues to hang out with people. I try to explain to him that we do our fair share for the world, we do community service and philanthropy, and he says, "yeah well you all must not do enough you should do it more, you all dont make a difference in the world like you all say you do." Im just kind of stunned by this display of ignorance.

First off if you want to go do community service go join APO if you want to go for grades join PSP, if you want a mix of everything while still having a social life, join a SOCIAL fraternity. Social fraternities and sororities were founded on friendship and nothing more. Friends got together and wanted to make a bond that would never crumble. I just hate how people judge us when they don't do anything. They just don't get it. Yes, frat guys do stupid stuff, but you don't hear about the drunk jerk who isn't even in a fraternity yell obscene things to girls on streets, or get in fights. But slap some greek letters and you have hit the stereotype goldmine. I am sorry if this is drawn out but I just had to put this out there, please comment and share some similar stories.

[rhoyaltempest]

I have heard of similar conversations taking place between GLO members and members of non-greek organizations. I think it's true that some (maybe even many) members of the Masons and OES carry around some kind of "superiority" complex when comparing their orgs to GLO's and it's so unnecessary. It really isn't a good look. When I hear members start to talk with this air of elitism, hence the popular "we are so much deeper," I get turned off completely.

ok, now, this is just my opinion and my gathering and understanding from any amount of research i've done about the history of fraternities and free masonry, which is little. I'll admit i don't know everything and that some of these things i say may be incorrect.

i feel as if the difference between modern day greeks "doing good" and free mason "doing good" and making a difference in the world or whatever you want to call it is great. I'm in a sorority and we do a lot of philanthropy and community service, and I do think we do good and make a difference. But the free masons were founded on a whole different level. One of their major goals was the shape men into leaders, make them educated and eventually they wanted those men to become leaders in their community, state the country whatever and promote the values they were founded on and push for the well being of free mason members and what the free masons believed was good for the community.

I don't think it's our fault we can't produce the same results as the free masons. So, i'm not saying you should feel bad that you're not doing enough or whatever your friend thinks. But we, on the collegiate level, are limited by many things. If you think your chapter is doing all it can then so be it. Yes, we could devote all of our time to community service but other things in our lives would be hurt like friendship, family and academics which is why we're in college in the first place.

And also, when i think of social greeks i feel as if the social term was used just to describe the setting in which the founding principles would be encouraged. If a founding principle is the betterment of oneself, to me that would mean that among friends and peers you will be encouraged by those friends and peers to become better at whatever you do. Your daily life would be challenged in a friendly setting to make sure you are living up to the values your founding fathers set before you.

[MysticCat]

I'm just trying to figure out where people are getting the idea that Freemasons do so much for their communities or try to make a difference in the world. I've certainly never seen it. Shriners (an auxilliary body to Freemasonry) yes, but not Freemasons per se.

Granted, historically Freemasonry has been at the heart of democratic and even revolutionary movements. But in America, it lost any political facet long ago.

Freemasonry exists to make men better men and to provide mutual support to its members. That, of course, should translate into men who are involved in and give of themselves to their communities. But I've never seen a Masonic lodge that does anything more than meet, have some social events and turn out for funerals or stone-layings.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by jessicaelaine

ok, now, this is just my opinion and my gathering and understanding from any amount of research i've done about the history of fraternities and free masonry, which is little. I'll admit i don't know everything and that some of these things i say may be incorrect.

i feel as if the difference between modern day greeks "doing good" and free mason "doing good" and making a difference in the world or whatever you want to call it is great. I'm in a sorority and we do a lot of philanthropy and community service, and I do think we do good and make a difference. But the free masons were founded on a whole different level. One of their major goals was the shape men into leaders, make them educated and eventually they wanted those men to become leaders in their community, state the country whatever and promote the values they were founded on and push for the well being of free mason members and what the free masons believed was good for the community.

I don't think it's our fault we can't produce the same results as the free masons. So, i'm not saying you should feel bad that you're not doing enough or whatever your friend thinks. But we, on the collegiate level, are limited by many things. If you think your chapter is doing all it can then so be it. Yes, we could devote all of our time to community service but other things in our lives would be hurt like friendship, family and academics which is why we're in college in the first place.

And also, when i think of social greeks i feel as if the social term was used just to describe the setting in which the founding principles would be encouraged. If a founding principle is the betterment of oneself, to me that would mean that among friends and peers you will be encouraged by those friends and peers to become better at whatever you do. Your daily life would be challenged in a friendly setting to make sure you are living up to the values your founding fathers set before you.

There are greek fraternities/sororities (NPHC especially) that would describe their orgs in this way as well and reach beyond college.

The bottom line is that no matter the differences/similarities, the arrogance and elitism coming from some Masons and OES members is unnecessary and a turn off...especially the idea that EVERYONE wants to be a member or would seek membership if they were eligible. But then I'm sure some non-greeks could say the same about some GLO members also.

[DSTCHAOS]

Mason and OES do a lot in some black communities, however, most of the visible Masons and OES members that I've seen in the community are also members of NPHC organizations.

Other than that, I haven't seen any programs or events publicized that are sponsored by Masons and OES around here in a long time.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Mason and OES do a lot in some black communities, however, most of the visible Masons and OES members that I've seen in the community are also members of NPHC organizations.

Thanks for filling me in on that. That's not what I've seen in the traditionally white lodges that I've been exposed to, so I'm glad to know that some Masons do take community service seriously.

Originally Posted by emb021

The other types of GLO (professional, honor, service), were spinoffs from the socials, focusing on those areas (networking for those in a profession, honoring outstanding students in that 'profession', doing service), but still using the concepts of fraternalism (bonds of brotherhood, rituals, etc).

Just to add a little more, in many instances for the earlier "professional" or course-of-study-specific fraternities, networking was not the original focus. When the earlier GLOs of this type arose, many if not most of the older general (social) fraternities would only charter at liberal arts colleges. Meanwhile, to give a few examples, law students might go straight to a law school without "college" first (and most law schools granted "bachelor's" degrees then), dental or pharmacy students went to straight to a dental or pharmacy school, ag or engineering students went to ag or technical colleges and music students might go to a conservatory rather than a college. Many of the early professional GLOs began to replicate the Greek experience at schools where established fraternities would not charter.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Thanks for filling me in on that. That's not what I've seen in the traditionally white lodges that I've been exposed to, so I'm glad to know that some Masons do take community service seriously.

I don't know about the generalizations that can be made about Masons and OES because I only associate with a few of them who aren't also NPHCers.

The involvement and visibility in the community may be correlated to things such as: (1) the alleged "division" between Freemasonry(?) and Prince Hall Masons and (2) some Mason lodges (Freemason and Prince Hall) donate money to various organizations, clean highways, and do other things that are under the radar.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

The involvement and visibility in the community may be correlated to things such as: (1) the alleged "division" between Freemasonry(?) and Prince Hall Masons and (2) some Mason lodges (Freemason and Prince Hall) donate money to various organizations, clean highways, and do other things that are under the radar.

Yeah, I'm sure that some things can be done under the radar. Seems to me that under-the-radar community service would not lead to people holding up Masons as exemplars of community service, though.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Yeah, I'm sure that some things can be done under the radar. Seems to me that under-the-radar community service would not lead to people holding up Masons as exemplars of community service, though.

I hear ya and that depends on what the purposes of your organization and service are. I never saw Masons as trying to be anyone's exemplars or needing to be visible, since they tend to operate more on a "if you know, you know" basis.

Plus, for GLOs, not every bit of service is done so an organization can be held up as exemplars of community service. A lot of it is really thankless and less visible.

[emb021]

Originally Posted by Jeremy121588

First off if you want to go do community service go join APO if you want to go for grades join PSP, if you want a mix of everything while still having a social life, join a SOCIAL fraternity. Social fraternities and sororities were founded on friendship and nothing more. Friends got together and wanted to make a bond that would never crumble.

I would disagree with this being the original purpose of social GLO.

If you look at the history of GLO, they got going with Phi Beta Kappa, which was founded as a secret dinner discussion club. The reason for these groups was not to have a social life, but to create a forum in which the members could come together to discuss matters of importance, which was not allowed to them in the colleges of the day (hence the need for secrecy, etc). Much of their secrecy were influenced by the masons (secret signs, handclaps, rituals, etc).

Then GLOs evolved to being a place for its members to come together and have meals. Colleges didn't provide the dinning halls and dorms halls we are used to today, so students started to create self-perpetuating clubs to provide a dinning location (something that still exists on some campuses), and later this evolved into having a house for members to live in and have meals (the full social GLO).

So friendship as the purpose of GLO actually came later.

The other types of GLO (professional, honor, service), were spinoffs from the socials, focusing on those areas (networking for those in a profession, honoring outstanding students in that 'profession', doing service), but still using the concepts of fraternalism (bonds of brotherhood, rituals, etc).

GLO have been around for over 200 years, but the social GLO as most of us know of, is a more recent creation.

[Senusret I]

I always tease my friend and tell him I'm going to become the Supreme Imperial Wishful Worshipful Potentate Emperor of the Loyal Orange Lodge in the Southwest and then he will have to bow to me.

[Senusret I]

(He's also an Alpha in addition to a Prince Hall Mason.... I have no masonic interest whatsoever.)

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Jeremy121588

I try to explain to him that we do our fair share for the world, we do community service and philanthropy, and he says, "yeah well you all must not do enough you should do it more, you all dont make a difference in the world like you all say you do." Im just kind of stunned by this display of ignorance.

If you have to advertise to the world that you are doing good....are you really?

Granted I would like to sometimes like to hear more stories about GLOs / community service as opposed ot hazing stories but all the same if YOU know what YOU are doing then to hell with what someone else who isn't even IN , thinks.


As my elders once said... "Good deeds nad good works are always seen by the eyes of the Lord."

[Senusret I]

ugh......having a debate with an Alpha/Prince Hall Mason on Facebook right now who insists that Masonry is my father.

I told him that Masonry can only claim other Masonic entities as its children.

Why do they insist on testing me? It's that same arrogance that RhoyalTempest was talking about.