Classification v. "Years Left"

[lyrelyre]

I have been thinking about this for a while, but I haven’t wanted to potentially hijack someone else's thread.

I’m not sure how much a chapter will consider that a PNM has more years left prior to graduation than her classification indicates. I know that I don't take it into account and, without going into MS, I have never experienced it being offered as a reason to give more consideration to a PNM.

Of course, it never hurts to let members know. However, I don’t want PNMs to think that simply by saying, “I know I’m technically a sophomore (or junior, or senior), but since I transferred (or changed my major, or planned poorly, or whatever) I have four (or however many) years left” that they will be on equal footing with a PNM who is actually in that younger class. On the other hand, I also don’t want upperclass(wo)men to be paranoid about their chances of membership. It depends on the campus, the chapter, and the individual PNM.

I’m a recruitment advisor at a somewhat competitive, “southernish” school. It is merely my experience that fifth year members are often inactive or on alumna status, regardless of what year they became new members. Further, I would say that a good number of our “problems” come from members who were not freshmen when they became new members. Naturally, I also have examples of upperclass(wo)men joining and becoming exemplary members.

I would like to end by saying this is purely my experience. I’m sure that many Greekchatters may disagree with me and offer numerous examples of Susie Sophomore, Jennifer Junior, or even Sally Senior joining the most elite and prestigious chapter at LSU, Ole Miss, or UGA.

It’s just my opinion and I wanted to put it out there.

[KSUViolet06]

I went to a school with a smaller scale recruitment, and upperclassmen generally had the same chance of getting a bid as a freshman, unless they were a senior. Seniors usually got cut whether they were graduating in May or had 2 years left.

[Zillini]

At my chapter it makes no difference if a PNM plans on being in school longer than her classification says. We do not take that into consideration during Recruitment. Why? Because our GLO's policy is regardless of the classification (Fr, Soph, Jr, Sr) when a member joins, after her 4th (senior) year in school she is considered an alum. A member may submit a written request for 5th year active status.

Over the years I've heard tons of PNMs and actives say they plan on being 5th year members. They probably have every intention of doing so at that particular point in time too. Yet in my 13 years of advising I've never had an official request. Again, why? Because typically when the time comes all they want to do is graduate, prepare for LSATs/MCATs/etc, look for a job, get into a grad school program, etc. They are happy not to have the obligations (time and money) of being an active sorority member any more.

Then again please keep in mind Bama has an upperclassmen quota. But before that came into place, it still wasn't taken into consideration for the same reasons stated above.

[deltalove16]

I've always wondered...what is the justification behind cutting girls based on classes? In my experience, the only issues came when a junior rushed and the only person who took her as a little was a sophomore, so the little graduated before the big. Still, not that big of a deal. Is there any justification behind only taking freshmen?

[SoCalGirl]

Juniors won't be dues paying members for as long as a freshman. Due to their class schedules being more demanding they're generally less involved as a junior and senior than they would have been as a freshman and sophomore. As they're only a member for two years they'll have less of a chance to serve the chapter in a leadership role. They're used to not having to answer to a chapter full of women regarding their behavior so they tend to be more resistent to the millions of rules that sorority members agree to abide by.

Those are just off the top of my head.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

Offering a different perspective based on my school:

I swear, I honestly am not a big fan of freshman. At my school I'd say about 2/6 chapters had amazing retention. The rest usually were around total give or take 20 members while I was there. Many freshmen came in, had no idea about greek life, did whatever/managed two years (on average), and burned out. (Some disappeared as soon as initiation was done!) I think with older women, they think about it more and are willing to commit to it if they're putting themselves through recruitment. It's b/c they thought about it long and hard first about what they were doing. (That or they depledged and rushed again and the 2nd time and they did "better" and were very willing to commit). But once again, this was at my particular school.
(Three of my five littles and myself weren't freshmen and I must admit, we did/are doing quite well! )

ETA: And regarding the "rules" and not wanting to deal with them...Oh boy! I can't tell you how many times I thought "I'm too old for this!" But I decided that I wanted to do it, and I had made my bed, so I sure did my best to lay in it with a smile on my face!

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by deltalove16

I've always wondered...what is the justification behind cutting girls based on classes? In my experience, the only issues came when a junior rushed and the only person who took her as a little was a sophomore, so the little graduated before the big. Still, not that big of a deal. Is there any justification behind only taking freshmen?

This is also a long term numbers and financial aspect to it. Here's what I mean, at Fantasy U quota is the same every year and there's 100% retention.

ABC chapter pledges quota of all freshmen in the fall every year. Therefore they lose the same amount of seniors every year after graduation as they pledge in the following recruitment.

DEF chapter also pledges quota every fall, but they have a mix of years in their class. After time some classes (year in school-wise) get larger than others. You can end up having more graduating seniors than next recruitment's quota. Then chapter total decreases which means less collected in dues, and/or budget cuts, and/or COR (time, effort and expense there too).

[epchick]

I think i've mentioned this before in another thread where a PNM said she was a sophomore/junior but had X more number of years left.

I come from a very small Greek system, and while I can't speak for what happens during recruitment, we have accepted sophomores, juniors and seniors.

BUT, my executive office does take into account what year you started school. So even if you are a junior but still have 5 years of school left, that DOES NOT mean you'll have 5 years in the sorority. To our executive office, you are a junior---which means you'll get 2 years out of the sorority (your junior year and your senior year). If you are lucky, you might get a 5th year.

I'm not sure if that is the same with the other 25 NPC organizations, but I think the PNMs need to be clear on that. They think that they can be an active member for as long as they are an undergrad, and many times it doesn't work that way.

[SunnyFLGirl]

Originally Posted by epchick

BUT, my executive office does take into account what year you started school. So even if you are a junior but still have 5 years of school left, that DOES NOT mean you'll have 5 years in the sorority. To our executive office, you are a junior---which means you'll get 2 years out of the sorority (your junior year and your senior year). If you are lucky, you might get a 5th year.

But, what if you're a transfer student and it's your first year at this school? For instance, I'm rushing as a junior transfer at a university next year, but I've been in community college for more than two years (changing majors kills). I'm assuming you mean the year you started at the university because otherwise, girls in my situation would only get one year (or none) if it's going by the year you started college in general.

[SigKapSweetie]

Originally Posted by SunnyFLGirl

But, what if you're a transfer student and it's your first year at this school? For instance, I'm rushing as a junior transfer at a university next year, but I've been in community college for more than two years (changing majors kills). I'm assuming you mean the year you started at the university because otherwise, girls in my situation would only get one year (or none) if it's going by the year you started college in general.

My understanding would be that they are counting full-term semesters of undergraduate work, regardless of the institution at which that work is performed. However, to the best of my knowledge, going alum as a fifth year is an option in my org, not the rule - my little sis did a five year master's program, and chose to go alum the fifth year because of the work load, but was given the option.

[SoCalGirl]

Originally Posted by SigKapSweetie

My understanding would be that they are counting full-term semesters of undergraduate work, regardless of the institution at which that work is performed. However, to the best of my knowledge, going alum as a fifth year is an option in my org, not the rule - my little sis did a five year master's program, and chose to go alum the fifth year because of the work load, but was given the option.

As far as HQ is concerned, it's not an option.

[KSUViolet06]

Something else to think about:

I've noticed that girls always say "I'm a junior but I have 2 years left, so I'll still be around like one of the younger members." What they don't realize is that by the time that 5th year rolls around, they will be in more difficult coursework, internships, job hunting, etc. The sorority is most likely not going to be at the forefront of their mond.

[SunnyFLGirl]

Originally Posted by SigKapSweetie

My understanding would be that they are counting full-term semesters of undergraduate work, regardless of the institution at which that work is performed. However, to the best of my knowledge, going alum as a fifth year is an option in my org, not the rule - my little sis did a five year master's program, and chose to go alum the fifth year because of the work load, but was given the option.

I'll have to check with my school (UCF) about this and see if it works the same way. I'll have 7 full-term semesters of undergraduate work already when I transfer, so I don't think I'll even bother rushing if that's the case. I don't think chapters will be very eager to give a girl a bid who can only be a member for a year at most and it doesn't seem worth it to me.

[Buttonz]

I know that SDT gives you the option to go alum or not your 5th year, but your not forced. I think every HQ is different.

[pinksirfidel]

I came in as a transfer student (junior) and I know it hurt my chances at some houses when I rushed. It just depends on the individual PNM and the needs of the chapter. In my opinion, transfer students are really looking to get acclimated on campus because they don’t have 4 years, they may have just a few to make their mark on campus. I found that many of my sisters in their junior and senior years weren't nearly as involved as the freshmen and sophomores. I was extremely involved with my chapter my first year and my second year, I was really involved on campus. Being involved on campus not only helped me meet more people outside of my sorority, but it also helped put my sorority on the map!