% of students greek or # of chapters on campus

[Zeta13Girl]

i

[KSUViolet06]

*I think strength is best determined by % of students who are greek, not by number of chapters.

*I'd rather have fewer chapters with a higher percentage of students participating. I think that says "strength" to me. For example, a school like Ole Miss is one that I'd consider to have a truly strong system. They have 9 sororities averaging over 200 members. This is different from, for example my school's fraternity system, which has 17 IFC chapters that range in numbers from 10-40.

[Lucky SC]

you can't really say the strength of a greek system is based on average chapter size... i'm sorry but we have sororities at South Carolina with 300+ girls and the majority of them don't even know each other because there are too many.

I would rather be apart of a bigger GLO, but i'd say after 150 or so theres just no fraternal bond, who knows maybe the chapters with 10-40 guys are really close.

I think its something you just have to judge for yourself... Socials, Community Service, GPA's, Campus Involvement, i think all represent "strength" more so, then simply how many people signed up to slap letters on their chest

[fantASTic]

In my experience, chapters that are VERY small (under 15) tend to be not close at all...and this is why they are small. In what I've seen, the lack of closeness contributes greatly to the low numbers because they can't recruit.

Edit: To elaborate, now that I have more time, in the chapters around me that are seriously low in numbers, it is because they have failed to recruit. Consistently with these chapters as well, their failure to recruit is not because of a lack of effort - it is because they don't have the brotherhood or sisterhood to attract potential new members. I have only seen one of these chapters REALLY turn it around, and they did it by graduating out as many people as possible and completely revamping their image - and taking anyone. From there, they were able to be a little more exclusive in the next few classes, and more exclusive after that.

Anyone seen anything similar or different?

This is, of course, referring to IFC/NPC only. I know there are a lot of tiny NPHC chapters, but that size isn't a big deal for them like it is for us.

[Lucky SC]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

In my experience, chapters that are VERY small (under 15) tend to be not close at all...and this is why they are small. In what I've seen, the lack of closeness contributes greatly to the low numbers because they can't recruit.

Edit: To elaborate, now that I have more time, in the chapters around me that are seriously low in numbers, it is because they have failed to recruit. Consistently with these chapters as well, their failure to recruit is not because of a lack of effort - it is because they don't have the brotherhood or sisterhood to attract potential new members. I have only seen one of these chapters REALLY turn it around, and they did it by graduating out as many people as possible and completely revamping their image - and taking anyone. From there, they were able to be a little more exclusive in the next few classes, and more exclusive after that.

Anyone seen anything similar or different?

This is, of course, referring to IFC/NPC only. I know there are a lot of tiny NPHC chapters, but that size isn't a big deal for them like it is for us.

I don't know how much you get a sense for "brotherhood or sisterhood" out of one week of rush before deciding which GLO you want to join. I think a lot of it plays into Image, the rich get richer kind of scenario.

You can't say you felt a strong fraternal bond after partying with some guys for 2 nights... c'mon now

[33girl]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

In my experience, chapters that are VERY small (under 15) tend to be not close at all...and this is why they are small. In what I've seen, the lack of closeness contributes greatly to the low numbers because they can't recruit.

Or it can be the other side of the coin - they're SO close and SO up each others' butts and to the left that during rush, they don't find it necessary to reach out to new people. At some point, you have to give a bid to someone you didn't know before rush, or you'll die out.

I would prefer a Greek system with smaller chapters, but more of them, just because that's what I'm used to. I would not have joined at a school with large chapters like Ole Miss. I would rather have 15 chapters with 60 people each than 5 chapters with 180 people each.

As far as "strength" I think percentage is more important than actual numbers of members or chapters. A place like DePauw undoubtedly has fewer Greek members than some of the Big 10 or Big 12 schools, but the percentage is much higher. I think the number of chapters depends on the location and the school - the school will have as many chapters as the market will bear. But if you have above 50% of the students going Greek, that's a strong system, whether it's at a school of 500 or 50,000, whether there are 3 chapters or 30.

[exlurker]

FWIW: U. S. News & World Report (bless its heart) has prepared listings of schools with the highest percentage of students in fraternities and in sororities (but apparently not of total Greek, male and female). Aside from the one ranked first, which is obviously a special case, these seem to be interesting and not especially surprising lists. Are the lists totally accurate? Hey, probably not. Are they fairly accurate? Probably, within reason and subject to expected reporting errors and glitches.

Fraternities (22% and higher)

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre...frat_brief.php

Sororities (25% and higher):

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre...orit_brief.php

The lists don't say anything directly about Greek system "strength" at schools. However, they may spur some thoughts on the topic, or at least remind us of colleges and universities that we didn't have at the forefront of our thinking.

[Lucky SC]

Georgia i think has 21% fraternity involvement, and Georgia Tech is 23%

Thats not even a competition in strength of each greek life, so i think basing it off of percentages as i stated earlier is not a accurate showing at all.

I may be biased, but I think the strongest fraternity GLO's are definatley in the SEC, and then maybe a few strong chapters here and there. Numbers don't speak for themselves in this case, its the experience you get.

Go to a Georgia, South Carolina, Bama, Auburn, Ole Miss, etc etc Football game and see the Greeks there, its treated like a way of life. Schools like Clemson, UVA, and Texas also have great Greeks so i hear, so like i said other confrences have good systems too, but i think overall the SEC wins out hands down.

[BigRedBeta]

Originally Posted by Zeta13Girl

1.) How do you determine the strength of the greek system at a school the % of people that are greek or how many different chapters are on the campus?


2.) Secondly, would you rather a high percentage of greeks with just a couple chapters or a smaller percentage of greeks with a bunch of chapters?

Neither.

To me a strong greek system means that the Greeks are doing well - chapters aren't in trouble of going under, Greeks are visible on campus (ie random people on campus tell you that they know people in their classes or campus organizations are greek), and most importantly, Greeks are excelling in the classroom and on campus. This means the All-Greek/All-fraternity/All-sorority GPA's are higher than the All-Campus/All-men's/All-women's GPA's, and that greeks are overrepresented (at least by % of students who are greek) on things like Student government, Senior Honorary societies, Homecoming Royalty, New Student orientation leaders and the like.

Basically, a strong greek system means that students are better off and more successful if they join than if they don't.

[gee_ess]

BigRedBeta said :
To me a strong greek system means that the Greeks are doing well - chapters aren't in trouble of going under, Greeks are visible on campus (ie random people on campus tell you that they know people in their classes or campus organizations are greek), and most importantly, Greeks are excelling in the classroom and on campus. This means the All-Greek/All-fraternity/All-sorority GPA's are higher than the All-Campus/All-men's/All-women's GPA's, and that greeks are overrepresented (at least by % of students who are greek) on things like Student government, Senior Honorary societies, Homecoming Royalty, New Student orientation leaders and the like.


I agree with this definition. In general, whenever I speak of a strong Greek system, this is the definition I am thinking in my head . With this definition, I would also add, that the recruitment system is very competitive - large numbers vying for bids.


Basically, a strong greek system means that students are better off and more successful if they join than if they don't


This, I don't agree with. I think you can be successful without being Greek and that nonGreeks are doing just fine on campus without a GLO affiliation.

[violetpretty]

This post reflects a Panhellenic/NPC POV (because that is what I am most familiar with):

I agree partly with BigRedBeta, but I think it is important to consider quantitative AND qualitative factors collectively. A strong Greek community has plenty of diversity among different chapters (enough diversity that you could see at least half of the independent student body in a chapter), and to do that, there need to be a reasonable number of chapters (I'd say, at least 5).

Of course, that has to be considered with chapter size and percentage of the student body that is Greek. This affects the visibility of Greeks. IUP for example, has 11 or 12 NPC chapters, but the percentage involved is low and the chapters are very small. I wouldn't call IUP a place with a "strong Greek community" for that reason. However, that doesn't diminish the experiences of the members of fraternities and sororities at these schools.

However, I think the most important thing to consider is the quality of the chapters collectively. Do the Greeks have a good relationship with the administration (i.e. not hazing, no alcohol issues)? Are their grades better than non-Greeks? Are they meeting (or better yet, exceeding) requirements set forth by their HQs? Is the community stable (or better yet, growing) size-wise? Do they have a supportive Greek Life Office with high expectations for their chapters? Are Greeks looked at in a positive light by most of the non-Greek students? Are Greeks well represented in campus leadership positions? You could have a large (number of chapters and percentage involved) Greek community, but if chapters are not contributing positively, the community is not strong.

I disagree with LuckySC with the implication (correct me if I'm wrong) that tradition automatically makes for a strong Greek community. A Greek community doesn't have to be 100 years old to be strong. Elon comes to mind (at least with Panhellenic). Their three oldest NPC chapters were founded in the 1970s. They have 8 chapters currently with 31% of the women in sororities; they've added 5 NPC chapters in the last 15ish years, and continue to grow. The chapters are exceeding their HQ's standards. Elon is a very strong Greek school without the "tradition" that SEC schools have.

I'd agree that SEC schools are strong Greek schools, but it's not their "tradition" and "way of life" that make them so. They are strong because they fit all of the quantitative and qualitative criteria I mentioned above.

[Lucky SC]

Originally Posted by BigRedBeta

Neither.

To me a strong greek system means that the Greeks are doing well - chapters aren't in trouble of going under, Greeks are visible on campus (ie random people on campus tell you that they know people in their classes or campus organizations are greek), and most importantly, Greeks are excelling in the classroom and on campus. This means the All-Greek/All-fraternity/All-sorority GPA's are higher than the All-Campus/All-men's/All-women's GPA's, and that greeks are overrepresented (at least by % of students who are greek) on things like Student government, Senior Honorary societies, Homecoming Royalty, New Student orientation leaders and the like.

Basically, a strong greek system means that students are better off and more successful if they join than if they don't.

ty i was wondering how long it would take for someone to agree with me and see what i was talkin about lol.

and i'm set in my ways violet, hands down i think the system is better down here atleast for the IFC, i dunno bout NPC. People go to schools like Alabama and go greek not because of the education at that school, but because generations and generations have, most of the people have been bred that they will do the same thing from a child.

Out of my direct family, i'm the first to go to college so not so much in my case except that i knew i wanted to go to an SEC school simply because of the athletics aspect. But many of the people i've met here at school have had family members past their grandparents go to the school and done the same greek chapter, to me that speaks volumes.

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by Lucky SC

ty i was wondering how long it would take for someone to agree with me and see what i was talkin about lol.

and i'm set in my ways violet, hands down i think the system is better down here atleast for the IFC, i dunno bout NPC. People go to schools like Alabama and go greek not because of the education at that school, but because generations and generations have, most of the people have been bred that they will do the same thing from a child.

Out of my direct family, i'm the first to go to college so not so much in my case except that i knew i wanted to go to an SEC school simply because of the athletics aspect. But many of the people i've met here at school have had family members past their grandparents go to the school and done the same greek chapter, to me that speaks volumes.

I wasn't making an argument of "who is better". My argument was "does the Greek community have these things? If yes, they are strong." The original question was, "How do you determine strength?" not "Who is the best?"

Maybe generations go Greek at SEC schools because the Community is "strong" (by the criteria I outlined)and has been for a long time. I wasn't saying that "tradition" is the antithesis to a strong community (definitely not), but that "tradition" does not make or break a strong Greek community. I'll edit my post to more clearly reflect that.

I'll give another example that all of our fratty posters can agree with. Washington & Lee. Their Panhellenic community is only around 20 years old, but their Panhellenic is not weak by any means. They have a reasonable number of chapters, incredible percentage of Greeks, they are growing, they are chapters well-regarded by their HQs and the University. They (meaning Panhellenic chapters) do not have the age and "tradition", but W&L is almost always mentioned whenever the fratties talk about strong Greek schools. W&L has more "tradition" on the IFC side, but does the lack of Panhellenic tradition weaken the Panhellenic strength? No way! Is W&L Panhellenic only strong because of the IFC tradition and not because of their own merits? Absolutely not.

[Lucky SC]

well im biased towards the SEC for obvious reasons because of my UGA and USC connections.

but if you read my original post, i said its the socials, philanthropy, student gov and group invovlement, and numbers of other things that determine strength. Not the number of chapters or people.

MIT for example has 50% greek system, can you really expect that to be a very fun, greek environment? I mean thats great that they go to MIT, best tech school in the country hands down... but people don't go to that school to live the greek life you think of... partying and putting so much time into the GLO

[33girl]

Originally Posted by exlurker

FWIW: U. S. News & World Report (bless its heart) has prepared listings of schools with the highest percentage of students in fraternities and in sororities (but apparently not of total Greek, male and female). Aside from the one ranked first, which is obviously a special case, these seem to be interesting and not especially surprising lists. Are the lists totally accurate? Hey, probably not. Are they fairly accurate? Probably, within reason and subject to expected reporting errors and glitches.

Fraternities (22% and higher)

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre...frat_brief.php

Sororities (25% and higher):

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre...orit_brief.php

The lists don't say anything directly about Greek system "strength" at schools. However, they may spur some thoughts on the topic, or at least remind us of colleges and universities that we didn't have at the forefront of our thinking.

BTW that Ohio Valley U apparently has 5 "social clubs" that each have a men's and women's arm.

This really isn't the best way to do it - of course some places are going to have a big enrollment in fraternities b/c there are more guys (i.e. MIT) & same with the girls. Total Greek would be more telling.