Substance free- an important clarification

[EE-BO]

Good evening everyone,

Our ELC came in town last night and we had a great dinner discussing the chapter's terrific success this past year.

We also talked about a lot of high level issues- and it was a good conversation which I appreciated and set my mind at ease on many things.

I won't repeat it here obviously, but I did want to post something important I learned because I have been passing out bad information in several threads on this forum and I am sorry for that.

Simply put- substance free housing pertains to alcohol and illegal drugs ONLY. It does not apply to tobacco. Some of our chapters have added that for their own chapter housing, but it is not required.

In my defense I would say that I was misinformed by someone from one of those chapters- but it was not necessarily intentional. Might just be a case of someone reporting what they know which of course starts with how things work at your chapter.

Overall this is a good reason why some more general clarification from Oxford would be of benefit to all us advisors who are not involved in the day to day, but it also pays to do your homework- and I should have done more research before commenting on so momentous an issue.

[Coramoor]

I still think it is bad policy to try and ban something that members have every legal right to use if they so desire.

Right now the Army tells me I'm not allowed to drink. It's one thing when in a war zone...but some old guys sitting in Oxford saying that?! Haha, yeah right.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Well, i think the chapter house is suppose to be sacred: a place of meetings and ritual, and I know some people live there but there are a lot of other places for the drinking and etc. Now here is where clarification is needed: sometimes substance-free means you can not be drunk and go into that area. If someone lives in the house, I think they should be able to get drunk on their own terms somewhere else, and be able to come back to sleep, or etc.

[Coramoor]

Sacred...?

C'mon man. It's not a church. It is the living space of a Social Fraternity.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Originally Posted by Coramoor

Sacred...?

C'mon man. It's not a church. It is the living space of a Social Fraternity.

its not a bar or a club either dude and drinking is not a requirement to be a "Social" fraternity, just a stereotype. It is however where ritual is done and is the center point for brotherhood. It should be respected. I am all about the having fun and drinking plays apart about it in college, but I don't see anything major about not drinking in ONE building.

[Coramoor]

That one building is where the larger part of my chapter lived. That one building is where I spent 4 years throwing money into, cleaning, fixing, and having fun.

If I was not allowed to drink and live how I wanted in that one building, I would have moved into an apartment. That in turn would have hurt the ability of my chapter to have a house and to have the money to function.

Alcohol is part of being social. In any adult social function there is going to be alcohol. If not...well, it's probably not worth going to anyway.

[Oldest_Pledge]

Originally Posted by Coramoor

In any adult social function there is going to be alcohol. If not...well, it's probably not worth going to anyway.

It is this attitude of "no alcohol = no fun" that is the root of the issue.

It should be: alcohol is present, those that are of legal age may have some, those that are not do not.

All Beta's should know that the legal drinking age is 21. No Beta under the age of 21 should really even give a serious thought to be drinking under age.

The world should be that a Fraternity house could have alcohol present in the building and that every one knows it will only be consumed by those that are legally allowed and even then in moderation.

But unfortunately the world is not like this. So in order to keep from looking like and being labeled as a bunch of drunken whore-hounds, the risk management rules have changed. And this is not just a Beta issue. This effects all of Greekdom.

Coramoor, it saddens me that your Beta exeperience is measured by the amount of alcohol flowing in the Chapter house. I understand that each chapter and campus is different. But this is not the Beta I was presented nor is it the Beta I want it to be for my son (should he pursue a Greek affiliation).

There is room for sharing a beer, a good wine or port with our Brothers. Wine served with dinner (for those that legal at a chapter house) should be allowed. Beer with the game should be allowed. Underage members should know they would never drink the house, or anywhere marked as a Beta.

By the way, Coramoor, did you house have formal meals? What about the treatment of the house mother?

[EE-BO]

This is a great discussion and I think gets to the core of the matter at hand. Good comments all around, but I would offer some counter-perspective on both points.

aeBOT and Oldest_Pledge, I think to a certain degree you put this as too much of a black and white issue. I do not think Coramoor is judging his experience in the house based on the flow of alcohol- he is merely pointing out that at a certain age all men deserve some trust and freedom of choice.

Coramoor- I side with you in theoretical terms 100%, but my counterargument to you based on my own experiences as a Housing Corp Director and my time as an active is that many people choose not to live in a house where they feel there is so much social activity that it distracts them from their studies. In fact, I think it is safe to say that back when I was an active and we had the largest chapter house on campus (sold a few years ago due to lack of residents even though the chapter was still large), our financial undoing was a lack of willing residents because of the partying. Even looking back at our Housing Board meeting minutes of 20-30 years ago I see this issue. There are many instances in our minutes where the report from chapter officers to the Board indicated that the house was not full in a given semester because so many members did not want to live in the middle of all the late night noise and partying of a very few members.

My problem with substance free is that it is too broad and constricting a solution. Oldest_Pledge, I did in fact have a wine cellar in my room when I lived in the house. I regularly served Lafite, DRC, a nice Montrachet or a fine Alsatian Riesling at formal chapter dinners or over a poker game.

I was 21 years old the year I had that cellar in the house, and I never made excess noise after hours or tore the place up. Same goes for most others who drank in the house on a regular basis.

Yet, under substance-free rules I would be eligible for removal from the house and early alumni status or worse- same as someone who was 19 and got drunk all the time and tore the place up. How does such an injust policy promote young men to be more responsible and learn to partake, or not partake, of alcohol in a social setting. A big part of college is growing up and becoming more socially adept. Substance free does not promote that in my mind. It merely takes alcohol underground and continues the excess sense of prohibition in this country.

The real trouble comes in two forms I think- both from a risk management and a financial perspective,

1. Letting a few people who do party too much do what they want without chapter action. If this small group gets too powerful then suddenly the majority of house residents are excess partyers and not only do fewer people live in the house- but the general character of the house residents (who are the guys who are always around) affect rush and over time more excess partyers are going to pledge and bring the chapter into a riskier state of existence.

2. Social functions in the house- even with security, closed guest lists and 3rd party servers- are what really creates the major noise issues and potential damage. This also creates a lot of risk management issues. It was not my chapter (and not necessarily Beta for what I speak of), but I am aware of several situations of attempted sexual assaults on female guests that happened at fraternity homes by non-members who came to the party. But the fact the assailants were non-members did not help when the story hit the local newspaper.

The existing Beta Theta Pi Code and Risk Management policies in place are adequate to cover issue #1- and it is up to advisors and Housing Corporations to help chapters deal with difficult members who create risk.

Issue #2 I think is easily dealt with by prohibiting formal social functions at the house. And this is what I think a more solid direction. The cost of hiring security and 3rd party servers for a social event at the house are not small. It is not that much more to have the party offsite and rent out a bar or other location for a social event. And this is I think an ideal solution.

But that solution has to come from Housing Corporations. Oxford has to think about the big picture and the overall legal framework in which a chapter operates. For them to ban social functions at the house does not really provide an adequate stance. It only works if Housing Corporations adopt such measures in conjunction with a national policy that deals with the letter of the law and a sense of care for all members- which is what the current policy does.

I see this like the immigration issue really. The problem is not a need for stricter rules, but rather better enforcement of existing rules.

If chapters and alumni are not enforcing existing rules, then why would they be more likely to enforce stricter rules like dry housing? I know of at least one NIC fraternity with a dry house policy- and it is not working effectively.

Down the road I think we are all destined to have dry houses or some kind of policy along the lines of what I have laid out above as a good solution. But that needs to happen with all NIC groups doing it together at once- like the sororities did. Then everyone is on a level playing field and there are no excuses.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Originally Posted by Coramoor

That one building is where the larger part of my chapter lived. That one building is where I spent 4 years throwing money into, cleaning, fixing, and having fun.

If I was not allowed to drink and live how I wanted in that one building, I would have moved into an apartment. That in turn would have hurt the ability of my chapter to have a house and to have the money to function.

Alcohol is part of being social. In any adult social function there is going to be alcohol. If not...well, it's probably not worth going to anyway.

Well, then I am going to say this: I think you joined Beta for the wrong reasons, and I think you rely too much on alcohol.

I am not against drinking, I drank a lot in college, in fact, they thought I was an alcoholic... AND hell, I'm o.k. with minors drinking a little.

However, I think that does not need to be done in the chapter. The house represents the fraternity and the chapter. Having fun there is great, but if you recruit with the representation that Betas just sit around and drink, well, then you are just going to get drunks who want to party all the time. There is a time to drink, and a time to party, but there is a lot of work that needs to be done otherwise in a fraternity too.

[zhbeta158]

Originally Posted by a.e.B.O.T.

Well, then I am going to say this: I think you joined Beta for the wrong reasons, and I think you rely too much on alcohol.

I am not against drinking, I drank a lot in college, in fact, they thought I was an alcoholic... AND hell, I'm o.k. with minors drinking a little.

However, I think that does not need to be done in the chapter. The house represents the fraternity and the chapter. Having fun there is great, but if you recruit with the representation that Betas just sit around and drink, well, then you are just going to get drunks who want to party all the time. There is a time to drink, and a time to party, but there is a lot of work that needs to be done otherwise in a fraternity too.

I do believe that a chapter house a sanctuary and is a sacred place for the fraternity as well as a place to do ritual. But I also do believe that a chapter house is a haven for all brothers, from all chapters, for all ages to be to be safe. A kind of outpost for all betas to know that that's where they can be safe. In those terms, I would rather have brothers drinking at the fraternal house than I would having them potentially drive home or not feel safe anywhere else (your area where you went to school maybe safe but that is not the same for everyone else). I am not a big drinker, in fact I do it very rarely, but I do appreciate the time and comradery with brothers who wish to drink. Now, beligerent drinking is a whole separate issue. I do believe that brothers must be accountable for themselves drunk or sober. Doing property damage is a huge pet-peev of mine and is unlawful. If one cant be responsible then one shouldn't be partaking in activities. I hate the term, "oh it's okay if it's messed up, it's a fraternity house." In conclusion, drinking, and following the true ideals of a beta are two separate things that shouldn't be mixed. I will admit that many brothers who do drink a lot and get smashed don't follow the ideals of Beta but I must also admit that there is an equal if not larger portion that do.

[33girl]

I know this isn't my place, but I'm going to crash anyway.

Many of the fraternities at my school (and this is back in the dark ages when alcohol was everywhere) had a rule that their chapter ROOM was alcohol free. This was the room where they held rituals and meetings, and party guests were not permitted to enter it. This was respected by all brothers and visitors.

There's a big difference between that and making the entire house alcohol free. Like Coramoor said, it may be the fraternity house, but you also come to regard it as your HOME.

[EE-BO]

We did the same 33girl- there were formal chapter rooms and a formal meeting room which were 100% off limits to any non-Betas at any time. Plus they were always kept locked and secured when not in use for their intended purpose.

A good point you raise and proof that a house does not have to be dry to show respect for what brings us all together.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Its more then showing respect. Your fraternity house is your icon on that campus. It is what shows you as a whole. It represents your chapter to all those you are trying to recruit, as well as all those who encourage the kind of reputation you would have. I don't think alcohol is necessary in that house, and I think it is better off substance free.

With that said, I seem to be the only one thinking that, so take pride in that, and whatever. The beauty of this organization is that is bonds thousands and thousands of men across the country with different beliefs, backgrounds, and opinions. If everyone had the same opinion, there would be no progress. I am proud of this organization, and I want only what is best for it.

[EE-BO]

We all want the best for Beta, and I think everyone in this discussion feels that way.

But at the same time, it is dangerous to be too idealistic on every point.

Coramoor is an esteemed member of the Armed Services who has defended our country. I am self-made in my own right without relying on any family support. We both have been actively involved in helping our chapters, and we both have some life experience under our belts- and the latter is priceless. I have not been out of school for 10 years yet and already I am amazed to look back and see what life experience and business experience mean. That wisdom far outweighs what I learn in school.

While I respect the motives of the substance-free proponents of this thread, please understand that it is very frustrating to be summarily dismissed on the notion that alcohol in a person's residence is inherently bad. To suggest that Coramoor (me too perhaps since I agree with him?) pledged Beta for the wrong reasons just because of a position on the substance-free housing question is a pretty big insult and it puts things in black and white terms that should not be a basis for judgement in a brotherhood.

That is where the internal strife comes from- and it is unnecessary since any time I have sat down and met with Betas on both sides of the argument, we could come away from it with a mutual respect and understanding. (The internet removes that personal interaction and is a good reason why online can be a treacherous forum for such discussions.)

It has been suggested in other threads, some now gone, that Beta is not a "frat". The fact is, we have some fratty chapters. And so do all fraternities. Plus all of us have chapters which are not at all fratty. There is no NIC group which is all one or the other.

And the real internal strife in all NIC fraternities over being alcohol-free is based in the fact that unlike the sororities, we have not all moved to a definitive policy at the same time. It has nothing to do with one fraternity or another having the magic answer to making all chapters places that will be free of risk management and potential lawsuits.

By virtue of the fact one has to spend a lot of money to belong, we are considered elite organizations and a segment of American society will always hate us for that. Get used to it. It is part of being successful in a country where success is prized by the intelligent and ambitious, but resented by the inadequate and lazy.

There is no doubt improvement can be made. I will admit right here and now that if my chapter was operating today the way it was when I was an active, I would not have been interested in the countless hours and financial support I put into the place now.

I recognize and appreciate the need for fraternities to evolve- but that comes just as much from the inherent changes in top colleges across the country where scholastics have become incredibly competitive as it does from the ongoing desire for fraternities to take the finest young men in a college population and make them better through their affiliation with a fraternity.

But the issue of substance free is not a moral one in my view. As I have said before, if the existing rules are enforced and honored- then there is no need for additional rules or for chapters who elect to go substance free to look down on those who do not (which is a HUGE issue right now.)

In the grand scheme of things- rush is the real answer. The drunk house on campus will bring in drunks during rush. And the reverse is true.

The answer is to have members who would not, on the whole, choose to booze up during college and make that the priority. The increasingly competitive nature of scholastics and admissions at top colleges helps a great deal in removing that crowd from the rush pool altogether.

But within the remainder, the answer is to find top guys who can be trusted- and then put them in an environment where they are trusted to do the right thing.

JMHO.

[nittanyalum]

Ok, now I'm crashing. First, I'm really enjoying following your conversation, this is a great thread.

But what I really wanted to say is, good lord, EE-BO, you haven't been out of college for even 10 years? I hope you don't take this the wrong way because I mean it in a good way, but from reading your posts, I thought you were older (perhaps even a few years older than me - eek!). I'm even more impressed with your very well-thought-out and presented posts, then. I don't always agree with you, but I always enjoy reading your posts. Kudos!