Universities Removing Recognition

[Tennessee]

I was just wanted to know of any circumstances where the University has removed recognition of an organization. If the University followed their own guidelines in doing so (i witness Universities have trouble keeping up with all of the rules they make anyway).

Specifically, how long are the statute of limitations? For instance, if a chapter gets in trouble for something 6 years ago, can they still bring that up as a reason for taking the chapter's recognition. What proof is needed in Universities accusations? etc.

It seems like Greek organizations are preferred to only be allowed to exist at host institutions with their consent. However, I have seen at least one chapter remain without the Universities recognition for a year, then they came back the follwing school year.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Tennessee

I was just wanted to know of any circumstances where the University has removed recognition of an organization.

The ones of which I am familiar have been for hazing and have been for a specified amount of time, e.g., five years. In those situations the org. also suspended the chapter.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by Tennessee

I was just wanted to know of any circumstances where the University has removed recognition of an organization. If the University followed their own guidelines in doing so (i witness Universities have trouble keeping up with all of the rules they make anyway).

Specifically, how long are the statute of limitations? For instance, if a chapter gets in trouble for something 6 years ago, can they still bring that up as a reason for taking the chapter's recognition. What proof is needed in Universities accusations? etc.

It seems like Greek organizations are preferred to only be allowed to exist at host institutions with their consent. However, I have seen at least one chapter remain without the Universities recognition for a year, then they came back the follwing school year.

You ask a lot of interesting questions. By Tenn. I assume you mean the University at Knoxville?

Yes, the Un has the right to sanction a GLO. But, many times they will and do work with IHQs.

GLO HQ do not want things going on on any campus that will damage the name of said GLO!

[Kevin]

It's sort of complicated.

First of all -- is your chapter still active?

[Tennessee]

Chapter was just yanked its recognition by the University. MhQ hasn't made a decision one way or another. I am assuming MhQ will follow suit based on the lack of communication with the chapter..

and my username has no reflection of the school this is happening at..

[Kevin]

Yeah.. well when your national pulls your charter, you probably wouldn't even have the ability to argue as it'd have to be the HQ doing the arguing since you couldn't exist anyhow without their recognition.

It doesn't sound too smart on your part to not be in constant communication with your HQ through this process.

[Tennessee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Yeah.. well when your national pulls your charter, you probably wouldn't even have the ability to argue as it'd have to be the HQ doing the arguing since you couldn't exist anyhow without their recognition.

It doesn't sound too smart on your part to not be in constant communication with your HQ through this process.

Agreed.. It wouldn't be too smart on the chapters part. There has been much advice from me as well as other alums to fly to MhQ and have a face to face. However I dont believe that the chapter has followed through with this..

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Tennessee

Agreed.. It wouldn't be too smart on the chapters part. There has been much advice from me as well as other alums to fly to MhQ and have a face to face. However I dont believe that the chapter has followed through with this..

It sounds like you don't even have a major officer position in the chapter. You either first need to obtain that or you at least need to convince one of those officers to do what you want to do.

Without one of them, probably whoever is in charge, really, you have no business speaking on behalf of your chapter, to your HQ or even really to alums. Y'all are best served to have one voice.

If your officers are dragging their feet in a situation where the charter might get revoked, then y'all need to remove them from office and find someone who will be effective.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It sounds like you don't even have a major officer position in the chapter. You either first need to obtain that or you at least need to convince one of those officers to do what you want to do.

Without one of them, probably whoever is in charge, really, you have no business speaking on behalf of your chapter, to your HQ or even really to alums.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I took Tennessee's comment about "advice from me as well as other alums" to mean he is an alum, not an active.

[Tennessee]

Yes I am a concerned alum... I realize there is only so much that I can do besides give advice.

However, I am more interested with University's "power" to be able to relinquish a chapter's recognition based on events that may have happened before these actives where even in college.

On top of that..
I feel as though the University has kept unproven/questionable events as reports for long periods of time and used every single one whether the incidents really involved a member of the fraternity or not. No proof.. All heresay..

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Tennessee

Yes I am a concerned alum... I realize there is only so much that I can do besides give advice.

However, I am more interested with University's "power" to be able to relinquish a chapter's recognition based on events that may have happened before these actives where even in college.

On top of that..
I feel as though the University has kept unproven/questionable events as reports for long periods of time and used every single one whether the incidents really involved a member of the fraternity or not. No proof.. All heresay..

Most of what administrators rely on to close chapters is unprovable hearsay. If they were held to the standards of the rules of evidence, they wouldn't be able to push through their anti-greek agendas.. and that would be inconvenient. There's nothing that requires them to apply any standard of evidence though. I suppose that a chapter might be owed due process, but all that is required there is notice and an opportunity to be heard. Beyond that, there's no requirement of fairness unless there's something I don't know about which is entirely possible.

If you're going to the university and ask them to overturn their own ruling, I guess you could do that. Such a thing happened at my alma mater when an organization was booted for low grades, etc., their HQ didn't pull their charter, they got their stuff together and are doing alright now. The university rerecognized them. All is well now.

At any rate, I'm sure that differs from school to school. You'd probably still need the cooperation of your HQ and chapter to even have this conversation with the school.

If you think about it though, most closed/unrecognized chapters are in a fairly similar position. When a school closes a chapter, they generally are saying that they think there's something irreversibly wrong with the culture of that chapter. If your chapter has a hazing problem or anything like that, the school is going to be unlikely to rerecognize you.

What might help is for the chapter to drop whatever traditional pledging process they had before and fully adopt whatever your HQ has as far as national programming.

You should definitely get in contact with your national/the chapter about becoming an advisor if you're really interested in this.

[Tennessee]

I agree with a lot that you have said.. It is more difficult to change the culture of an organization than to just start over.. I admit that I may not have been given all of the information from the chapter and the Greek Life Office. So a decision of the MhQ not recognizing them may in fact be warrented. We shall see what decision they will make.

As an example though, there was an organization at my college that got in trouble for hazing (having hood on a kid outside the house) and they lost recognition through the school for a year. Their MhQ decided to still recognize them, they rushed guys (although not through the Council Rush Rules/Regulations) they had events (although no "official" ones with sororities). It was really quite interesting to see a fraternity's ability to be somewhat effective without recognition from the school. They ended up coming back and getting recognition from the school a year later and I believe they haven't looked back since.

[Kevin]

Your best bet is to call your HQ and ask what you can do to help.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Your best bet is to call your HQ and ask what you can do to help.

Good advice, but in most cases, "IF" the College pulls recognition then many GLOs will follow suit and do the same. Why?

Because many feel that if they are not wanted then they will leave and with the option to return at a later date.

But if some feel that it was unwarrented by the college, they will try to work with them and can see what can be worked out.

Then there are some who do not care and will have off Campus underground Chapters that are sanctioned by HQs.

It is a case by case situation though!

[Kevin]

Absolutely. I know Sigma Nu has disagreed with colleges regarding this in the past and decided to not close a chapter. I know TKE routinely does it.