Definitions Required

Oldest_Pledge · #1 06-07-2007, 01:05 PM

In the document openly published on the Beta web site, the following requirements are part of those needed to obtain a charter:

Quote:

V. Responsible Personal Conduct
A. Have an active Kai Committee governed by its constitution, bylaws, The Code of Beta Theta Pi and Beta Theta Pi’s Risk Management policy.
B. Have one member and one advisor trained in substance abuse annually.
C. Host one event regarding alcohol education annually.
D. Receive a risk management rating of excellent.
E. Where applicable, the colony or chapter shall reside in a substance-free living environment.

I am intrigued by the bold, italicized and underlined words above (I added the B, I and U). No where on the Beta site can I find these words defined.

Yet I can find them defined on several University web sites to include all tobacco products and at some smaller, religious based schools, even includes caffine.

What is the "will be blessed by the US Supreme Court, can not be legally challenged" Beta definition of these words?

Based on the substance abuse education program at my son's middle school, all household cleaning products and aerosoles that are "huffed" would fall into the catagory requiring a Beta chapter to keep them out of the living environment.

If the chapter did not have a house and the members were living in a dorm and the school used cleaning products that fell into this category, the chapter would be in violation.

Also, if the members lived in a dorm and a there was booze or drugs any where in the building (even if not in the Beta's room), this could be viewed as a violation.

Just something to consider.

Coramoor · #2 06-07-2007, 02:26 PM

Again, just more draconian rules. Unless something changes, Beta will just be a gay honor fraternity.

a.e.B.O.T. · #3 06-07-2007, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coramoor

Again, just more draconian rules. Unless something changes, Beta will just be a gay honor fraternity.

Ok, that was really not necessary coramoor.

Oldest-Pledge, that is interesting, and it up for interpretation, as you proved. I think though that they were talking about the chapter house, not the dorm of individual betas who live outside the house.

Substance-free means no alcohol or illegal drugs. Yes, things like caffeine can be misinterpreted under this, but that assumption is a little drastic. The chapter house is suppose to be a meeting place for the fraternity to gather, a place where rituals take place, a place were business is taken care of. Drugs or alcohol shouldn't take place there anyways, ESPECIALLY if the chapter does their ritual in the chapter house.

EE-BO · #4 06-07-2007, 11:32 PM

News to me- and thanks for posting this. "Where applicable" is what I am interested in figuring out.

But in Beta terms, a substance-free house means no illegal drug use (meaning no illegal use of legal drugs and no use of illegal drugs), no alcohol use and no tobacco.

a.e.B.O.T. · #5 06-08-2007, 12:45 AM

by tobacco, i assume you mean in doors.

I think the "where applicable" is in regards to those who do not own a chapter house, or those who own one but do not live in their chapter house.

EE-BO · #6 06-08-2007, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a.e.B.O.T.

by tobacco, i assume you mean in doors.

I think the "where applicable" is in regards to those who do not own a chapter house, or those who own one but do not live in their chapter house.

Indoors or out- the concept, at least as it has been put in practice at some chapters, applies once you cross the property line.

You may be right on the "where applicable" part. I was thinking along those lines plus also in situations where alumni built/bought a house and wanted to make it substance-free.

Oldest_Pledge · #7 06-08-2007, 08:45 AM

The document is posted on the Colony Education page at the bottom. It is a Word Document titled "Chatering Requirements." See "Home - Go Beta - Expansions - Colony Education."

As far as my extension of the interpretations, it only takes on incident, one lawyer and one judge. And actually, it was my law class that brought up the "huffing" cleaning supplies.

And the "where applicable" protion of the statement can be read to mean where ever a Beta lives. So even if you are 21 you could not be found with booze in your living quarters (even if it is the non-Beta roommates).

Things that make you think about how crazy the world it getting. I would not been upset if I was told by the AO that my house (if we had a house) had to be drug free and tobacco free when I was an undergrad. And I could accept the no booze rule as well. But if members were truely Betas, the under 21 one crowd would not have problem with those that are of legal age having a drink in the house and the underage members would leave the stuff alone.

That is what Beta Theta Pi needs to be teaching....

Coramoor · #8 06-11-2007, 02:12 PM

This blows my mind!

If I rushed a house and the brothers told me that they don't allow tobacco or alcohol...and used that as a selling point I would have laughed in their face and left them at the front door!

Alcohol and tobacco is not illegal. I don't smoke, but as long as people clean up their butts or spit cups there isn't a problem. I might swear off alcohol when I wake up dehydrated and with a throbbing headache...Rather than ban alcohol, fraternities should promote responsible consumption of alcoholic beverages. If you go into just about any industry you will be expected to attend social events-which will have booze. If you make an ass of your self there...well, there goes your career.

Hell, I'd bet anything that during the meetings in which Knox and Marshall set down the founding principles they were drinking some cognac and smoking a cigar!

rastaone · #9 06-11-2007, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coramoor

This blows my mind!

If I rushed a house and the brothers told me that they don't allow tobacco or alcohol...and used that as a selling point I would have laughed in their face and left them at the front door!

Alcohol and tobacco is not illegal. I don't smoke, but as long as people clean up their butts or spit cups there isn't a problem. I might swear off alcohol when I wake up dehydrated and with a throbbing headache...Rather than ban alcohol, fraternities should promote responsible consumption of alcoholic beverages. If you go into just about any industry you will be expected to attend social events-which will have booze. If you make an ass of your self there...well, there goes your career.

Hell, I'd bet anything that during the meetings in which Knox and Marshall set down the founding principles they were drinking some cognac and smoking a cigar!

this is exactly what i have been arguing fro my chapter. i dont alcohol or drugs are bad, and i dont think beta is in the position to tell us what we can and cannot do. they really should be promoting responsible drinking, not treating us like little kids. i dont understand how we will learn "responsible social conduct" in beta if they try to hold our hand for 4 years.

and yeah, it definitely hurts us in recruiting. and what oldest pledge is referring to about chartering requirements...this has caused a lot of distrust and corruption within the brotherhood. certain people dont trust other brothers because theyre afraid they will drink in the house and fuck it up for everyone. so in turn, everyone is hiding stuff from one another.

ECUJacob · #10 06-11-2007, 06:57 PM

I believe most laws, and the courts they are argued in, are based on what a reasonable person would think or do in a situation. Given this premise, I would think that you all have taken that little piece of rule to its furthest extreme.

Where applicable means exactly that. It signifies that this rule does not apply to 100% of situations in Beta's broad domain.

a.e.B.O.T. · #11 06-12-2007, 04:33 PM

Ok, well I am a fan for drinking and smoking if one wants to, and if its responsible.

HOWEVER, Your chapter house is not the place for it. The chapter house is where you meet in brotherhood, do rituals, and live under the letters we value. I think it makes perfect sense for this to be in our code. Our chapter houses represent who we are. They are an image of who we are to the outside world. They see our letters above our door, I don't want them to see those letters and then see a bunch of people drinking. Why? Well, not because there is anything wrong with drinking. If responsible, drinking is totally ok in my book. I don't want them to see it under those letters, because I don't want them to think thats who we are. There is this 'frat' stereotype that goes back to 70's and 80's and with movies like Animal House where fraternity members are drunken bums who eventually get kicked out of college. That isn't who we are, and quite frankly, I don't think everyone will connect this, but really, I don't want anyone to.

When they look at the chapter house with the letters above our door they should see a place of brotherhood, FUN, and integrity. I don't think they should have any room to think that there is a bunch of drunken fools, cause then only drunken fools would want to join. I dont think we should act like we dont drink, hell, we should totally be straight forward when they ask, and I dont mind them seeing us drink outside the chapter house. The chapter house is not the place for it, thats like drinking in church (besides the little cup of wine for communion).

ECUJacob · #12 06-12-2007, 07:58 PM

^ well said.

Coramoor · #13 06-14-2007, 08:25 AM

How does drinking or smoking take away from brotherhood or rituals? How does it take away from the value of our letters?

Beta is a fraternity...it's not a religion.

Drinking is FUN and does nothing to take away from brotherhood nor does it mean you have no integrity. Hell, how does smoking and drinking even have an impact on one's integrity? That makes no sense.

a.e.B.O.T. · #14 06-14-2007, 02:25 PM

Dude, it makes perfect sense, its just not what you want to hear...

Ok, first off, drinking CAN take away from the brotherhood and the integrity of our fraternity if mishandled.

Secondly, I was talking about perception. When people see a bunch of guys drinking in their chapter house, then its going to be categorized as a stupid frat. People are going to join, cause they think they are joining the stupid party frat, etc. Well, we are not the stupid party frat, well I hope we are not, and we def. do not want the guys attracted to the stupid party frat image.

The image they should see around our house is a bunch of well respected men with principles but also have a strong sense of friendship and fun. That is the image we want to show forth, so that those are the guys we get in the future.

rastaone · #15 06-14-2007, 08:22 PM

you can be principled, have fun, and maintain great relations even if you drink and smoke. i would say some of the best times ive ever had were while drinking, and if id want to share those times with anyone, id want it to be with my brothers. and living by principles means not getting shitfaced 7 nights a week and making a fool out of yourself in front of a sorority and have the cops arrest you. if we are principled, dont you think we can manage to keep ourselves under control and not exceed our limits? thats what i dont understand, we are principled men, but half the reason is because we are forced to follow these rules. i think it would make a greater statement to everyone else if we had the capability of drinking, but just didnt take it overboard like some of the other frats.