Question about BMP?

[SigKapCoug]

Hey, sorry to crash the board but i was wondering how BMP works. I've seen that you guys say theres no pledging, but how does that work? Is it like AGR where they are initiated 72 hours after bid day, or what?

Washington Alpha is coming back to their house this fall and I'm excited for that. All the SigEps I've met are fantastic guys.

(and, of course, I like my Go SigEp shirt they gave me lol)

[Benson7824]

I guess the most basic way of saying it is that the BMP turns pledging into a college-long education process. There are three main steps that all brothers MUST do to be eligilbe to become alumni, then two other advanced educational steps that are optional for those that want to continue. There is also an increased emphasis on older members mentoring younger members.

For more information, check out this link:

http://sigep.org/documents/bmp-cliff-notes.pdf

~Benson

[SoCalGirl]

I skimmed the link. It makes me think of our Promise program which is implented for new members, members, and alumnae.

[Sack Lodge]

depends on the chapter. there are still several traditional chapters that have a real pledgeship and make their pledges earn it. here in the south, most BMP chapters do not adhere to national's guidelines for BMP.

personally, i believe SigEp nationals only created BMP to limit the lawsuits any fraternity at the national level faces. they turned their back on tradition to save their own butts. any SigEP chapter worth its salt does not adhere to the BMP. BMP chapters tend to be less selective (an oasis of social progressive toolbags) and the laughing stock of their respective greek system. i doubt the founders of SigEp would have wanted their fraternity to resemble anything near of what it has become.

[Benson7824]

Sack,

I agree that it does depend on the chapter and the campus...from what I know, most BMP chapters are NOT the "laughing stock of their respective Greek system" except in the south. Also, I've seen both BMP and Traditional chapters be very selective...it really depends on that particular chapter.

I think that the BMP was developed because HQ saw what was coming...a society around most of the US that will not and does not tolerate a hazing culture. Look around somewhere other than the "old south," chapters are closing because of their "real pledgeship."

One thing I do have to say in regard to what our founders would want: read the history. Read why we were founded. Read the values they founded us on. I think the only thing that they wouldn't like is how divided the fraternity is over the BMP vs. Traditional debate.

We were founded on being innovative, holding true to our beliefs yet being able to evolve to live on.

Let's take a good look at when some of our "traditions" started...many did not exist in the time of our founders...most of the pledging activities many of our chapters hold dearly were developed after the war...many years after our founding. Our chapters evolved then to fit into society. At many campuses, the BMP is how we are evolving again to fit society and be successful. At campuses where traditional still works, we are still doing it (on or off the record) in order to fit society and be successful.

I've asked this before and I will again, why are we arguing about this? If traditional works in some places, leave it alone. If BMP works in some places, leave it alone. Ultimately, don't we all want SigEp to be as strong as possible?

Just my thoughts on our never-ending-argument,
Benson

[Sack Lodge]

Originally Posted by Benson7824

Sack,

I agree that it does depend on the chapter and the campus...from what I know, most BMP chapters are NOT the "laughing stock of their respective Greek system" except in the south. Also, I've seen both BMP and Traditional chapters be very selective...it really depends on that particular chapter.

I think that the BMP was developed because HQ saw what was coming...a society around most of the US that will not and does not tolerate a hazing culture. Look around somewhere other than the "old south," chapters are closing because of their "real pledgeship."

One thing I do have to say in regard to what our founders would want: read the history. Read why we were founded. Read the values they founded us on. I think the only thing that they wouldn't like is how divided the fraternity is over the BMP vs. Traditional debate.

We were founded on being innovative, holding true to our beliefs yet being able to evolve to live on.

Let's take a good look at when some of our "traditions" started...many did not exist in the time of our founders...most of the pledging activities many of our chapters hold dearly were developed after the war...many years after our founding. Our chapters evolved then to fit into society. At many campuses, the BMP is how we are evolving again to fit society and be successful. At campuses where traditional still works, we are still doing it (on or off the record) in order to fit society and be successful.

I've asked this before and I will again, why are we arguing about this? If traditional works in some places, leave it alone. If BMP works in some places, leave it alone. Ultimately, don't we all want SigEp to be as strong as possible?

Just my thoughts on our never-ending-argument,
Benson

It is a matter of principle, not a question of whether it works or not. If we held our beliefs so dearly, why is nationals on a campaign to ram its new and unorthodox ideology down everyone's throat - oh yeah, for money. 88 years of practice was abolished for nothing but money, not because society was turning against hazing or the idea of a having pledgeship.

Hazing is such a grey word anyway; having a sober pledge every night of the week, having pledges clean the house, and kicking pledges in the face are all considered hazing by nationals but are completely different things and jeopardizing the safety and health of a pledge is something most rational people would object to anyway. Administering calisthenics (bows & tows, bear crawls, mountain climbs, etc) as a penalty for misbehavor and the like is condemned by nationals but every single person did these things when they played sports in high school. Rookie players had certan responsibilities (shagging balls, moving goals, etc). Now everyone's an equal as soon as you write a check and haven't proven a single thing. If you're trying to tell me that there aren't any similarities between pledging and something as trivial and accepted as high school athletics practices (or athletics on any level, for that matter), you have no idea what you are talking about when you say:

Originally Posted by Benson7824

I think that the BMP was developed because HQ saw what was coming...a society around most of the US that will not and does not tolerate a hazing culture"

. Instead of being coached to play a kid's game, pledges are being coached on how to better themselves, be responsible to ther fellow man, honor commitments, face and overcome adversity, how be a gentleman, and I could go on forever. If the BMP is an indictment against fraternity life in general, then it is an indictment on American life in general also. Since when was it American to buy respect, status, identity, freindship and the like instead of earning it?

BMP is merely a product nationals manufactured so that it would appeal to more people and simultaneously reduce insuance costs/likelihood of a lawsuit - a brilliant business decision. But last I heard, we were a brotherhood, not a corporation. Nationals objects to making a "new member" earn his membership and will crucify anyone who does otherwise because they feel that it is "bad" for business. It is this betrayal of tradition that has devalued the name of the largest fraternty in the world in the eyes of the campuses it inhabits.

It has been my experience, here in the south where tradition and principle are sacred on so many levels, that because SigEp has deviated so far from the norm in terms of its policies and beliefs (nationally), we have ostricized ourselves from rest the greek community. Before my chapter was made BMP, we were THE top chapter on campus. After being rechartered, no respectable house would throw a party with us, it killed us in recruitment (in terms of the quality and number of guys we wanted), and it hurt us with the sororities. In my 3 years in the house, the more we have deviated from BMP, the more successful we have become. We have doubled in size to nearly 100 members, throw parties with reputable houses, rebult sorority relations (mixers, date parties, etc), and aquired a better quality of overall membership. We have challenged our pledges beyond the boundaries of the LROB and they are better and prouder for it. I wish I could say I was as proud of going through and bonding with my pledge class as our newer initiates can. As we continue to revive tradition in my chapter, we continue to advance our name on campus and will be over 100 men next fall (and a force to be reckoned with). We are shedding the stigma of "Sigma Phi Everyone" and "BMP - Balanced Man Pussies" with great success.

[pshsx1]

I hate all of these BMP threads b/c all of the pledge model chapter members are all ignorant a-holes for some reason.

I am the VP of Mem D of my chapter and we are one of the top chapters at my school, we recruit great guys, and we have traditions that have held strong for the 38 years my chapter has been around.

Everything about any Greek org is different from chapter to chapter. You CANNOT base your opinions on your own chapter nor one other chapter that you have run into.

If your members are content with being member of a bottom rung Fraternity, maybe you need to re-evaluate both your recruitment process and your member development.

And there is nothing wrong with the term "member development." Keep in mind, although we're all brothers, we are also members of an organization of our respective schools.

[TNK274]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

I hate all of these BMP threads b/c all of the pledge model chapter members are all ignorant a-holes for some reason.

I am the VP of Mem D of my chapter and we are one of the top chapters at my school, we recruit great guys, and we have traditions that have held strong for the 38 years my chapter has been around.

Everything about any Greek org is different from chapter to chapter. You CANNOT base your opinions on your own chapter nor one other chapter that you have run into.

If your members are content with being member of a bottom rung Fraternity, maybe you need to re-evaluate both your recruitment process and your member development.

And there is nothing wrong with the term "member development." Keep in mind, although we're all brothers, we are also members of an organization of our respective schools.

Well, fellow SigEp, I have been to a few other chapters, not many, but mind you I don't have the means to travel a lot. And yes, re-evaluating recruitment and development is exactly what we are doing.

I have been to 3 other chapters, two were very successful on their campuses, the other, not so much. The two had a strong development program, one was pledge and the other was BMP. Ours has been lacking recently and a few brothers of mine that visited those chapters and others agree with trying a little bit from each chapter, but ultimately we know that we have to find something that works and that we can make OUR OWN i.e. something that we can offer that is different from uniform BMP and other fraternities on campus. Not rejecting BMP, rather EMBRACING the design and going further than the Quest default is what I mean. Not downing the BMP by any means, just saying one has to strike a balance....

The reason I dislike the word member is because a fraternity is a Brotherhood, no? I joined a fraternity to form true bonds of friendship with dudes that I have things in common with, and to have fun with those people. Member development to me means taking Sigmas and turning them into brothers, in the sense that one makes that step from feeling like a member to becoming a brother at some point during his development. We have had some guys leave because they just didn't feel that bond with some brothers, recently it's been mostly Sigmas and Phis and one Epsilon :O, and that is really depressing, to see this happen and feel powerless, because they reject any kind of reaching out to them....or perhaps we aren't trying the right thing?

This is where Recruitment comes in. We've had some guys who weren't exactly the most outgoing and almost all who quit were the non-social type. The problem is the older guys are the "stereotypical BMP guys" that the stereotypical pledge model assholes talk about. I love them, though, they are my brothers, but we have a hard time recruiting well rounded men because of the image they project. We are a joke at intramurals (slowly changing that) the last time we got Phi Beta Kappa was spring 06 (3.15) but only 12 actives that semester. The past 2 years it's been 2.8. Just saying that with old actives and alumni hugging traditions nuts it's hard to get things done.

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by TNK274

Well, fellow SigEp, I have been to a few other chapters, not many, but mind you I don't have the means to travel a lot. And yes, re-evaluating recruitment and development is exactly what we are doing.

I have been to 3 other chapters, two were very successful on their campuses, the other, not so much. The two had a strong development program, one was pledge and the other was BMP. Ours has been lacking recently and a few brothers of mine that visited those chapters and others agree with trying a little bit from each chapter, but ultimately we know that we have to find something that works and that we can make OUR OWN i.e. something that we can offer that is different from uniform BMP and other fraternities on campus. Not rejecting BMP, rather EMBRACING the design and going further than the Quest default is what I mean. Not downing the BMP by any means, just saying one has to strike a balance....

The reason I dislike the word member is because a fraternity is a Brotherhood, no? I joined a fraternity to form true bonds of friendship with dudes that I have things in common with, and to have fun with those people. Member development to me means taking Sigmas and turning them into brothers, in the sense that one makes that step from feeling like a member to becoming a brother at some point during his development. We have had some guys leave because they just didn't feel that bond with some brothers, recently it's been mostly Sigmas and Phis and one Epsilon :O, and that is really depressing, to see this happen and feel powerless, because they reject any kind of reaching out to them....or perhaps we aren't trying the right thing?

This is where Recruitment comes in. We've had some guys who weren't exactly the most outgoing and almost all who quit were the non-social type. The problem is the older guys are the "stereotypical BMP guys" that the stereotypical pledge model assholes talk about. I love them, though, they are my brothers, but we have a hard time recruiting well rounded men because of the image they project. We are a joke at intramurals (slowly changing that) the last time we got Phi Beta Kappa was spring 06 (3.15) but only 12 actives that semester. The past 2 years it's been 2.8. Just saying that with old actives and alumni hugging traditions nuts it's hard to get things done.

Sorry to kind of snap at you in the last post, I was just a bit on edge about things last night. Anyway, what you're saying sounds good and hopefully your chapter is headed in the right direction. It just takes time. Older members are generally always the ones who want to be stubborn and not change anything.

Also, I think it's fine to say that you start off as a member and become a Brother. It's like pledging in a sense. You pledge in order to earn your right to wear letters and become a Brother. Same with the BMP. It even says so in the LRB. The second you go through SROP, you become a member in good standing. You have to earn that right to be called a Brother. Personally, when we have new Sigmas join, I treat them with as much respect and hold them as dear to me as any of our Phis, Epsilons, or Brother Mentors.

I do like seeing your point of view on this, though.

[TonyBromo]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

I hate all of these BMP threads b/c all of the pledge model chapter members are all ignorant a-holes for some reason.

I am the VP of Mem D of my chapter and we are one of the top chapters at my school, we recruit great guys, and we have traditions that have held strong for the 38 years my chapter has been around.

Everything about any Greek org is different from chapter to chapter. You CANNOT base your opinions on your own chapter nor one other chapter that you have run into.

If your members are content with being member of a bottom rung Fraternity, maybe you need to re-evaluate both your recruitment process and your member development.

And there is nothing wrong with the term "member development." Keep in mind, although we're all brothers, we are also members of an organization of our respective schools.

Exactly, then why does nationals seem to think its logical to implement a cookie-cutter approach to member development? Like someone mentioned earlier, the BMP was a business decision and a perversion of the fraternity's values.