Office Ettiquette

[three2tango]

I work for the state government and the requirements for my position require that you have a degree in accounting or finance. There is a girl in my office who is up for a promotion to my level who is rumored to have no degree. Today I went over and asked her if she had a four year degree. She talked all around the issue and never really gave me an answer. About 20 minutes later my boss calls me in and chews me out about asking personal and confidential information of a fellow employee. Then after I get yelled at my entire department gets called into a meeting and we all get yelled at about minding our own business.

I didn't then and don't now see how it is wrong to ask someone if they have a four year degree. Was that too personal a question? Is there a side I am not seeing?

I see it this way, if it came up as just a part of small talk and informal conversation, I guess it'd be an innocent question to ask.

BUT -- since she was up for promotion and it's a critical time for her and I suppose the rest of your staff, perhaps it was somewhat inappropriate for you to ask that.

Just my two cents.

[three2tango]

Thanks--- I need you to elaborate on your view. (It wasn't small talk- I wen't up and asked her flat out)

When I worked at CPA firm, the first week I was there 3 people asked if I had passed the CPA exam. I didn't think anything of it to say, "No I have not."

Think back to college the first thing anyone ever asked you when they met you was, "What's your major" was that too personal?

[Dionysus]

I would've been insulted if someone on my job just flat out asked me did I have a degree. If she's competent it shouldn't really matter.

In my opinion, asking someone "Do you have a four year degree?" is not the same thing as "What's your major?". I think that's like comparing the questions - "Where do you live?" and "Did you pay your rent this month?"

[kafromTN]

You work for a State government, which is hypothetically controlled by the citizens& taxpayers of the state& since you're a taxpayer aren't you entitled to know the qualifications of a employee/potential employee? It's not like this is a Fortune 500 company and you're just some consumer who wants to know more about the way it's run. We wouldn't want someone convicted of embezzlement to be running certain depts, would we? You as a taxpayer have a vested interest to know that the government (and all its wonderful depts.) are doing what it can to provide the services it renders effectively& efficiently .

Then again where I work after someone is hired for a job at supervisor level or above, the HR dept. sends out a notice basically outlining the person's qualifications including by not limited to education, job experience and what they have done thus far at our company.

I personally don't think that is too personal a question to ask unless of course it puts the person in a bind if they answer you truthfully. Questions might be asked if a local newspaper found out people were being hired who did not meet the stated requirements.

-Mark

requirement-Something that is required; a necessity.
Something obligatory; a prerequisite.

[mmcat]

smile pretty and keep your mouth shut.
you might consider apologizing to the under qualified chickie...
she's out of your control.
sad as it is..
that might calm her down a bit and off of you.
good luck.

[winnieb]

Originally posted by three2tango
Thanks--- I need you to elaborate on your view. (It wasn't small talk- I wen't up and asked her flat out)

I 100% agree with what Sandy said. I guess to elaborate on that, from my pov....

Since your coworker is up for a promotion, you asking her if she had her degree was a form of calling her out on her possible lack of qualifications.

In my office situations most people do not talk about their college degrees. If someone is up for a promotions, their work experience often outweighs a degree. It tends to be more about real life experience and interpersonal skills rather than a text book eduction.

Just my opinion.....

[DeltAlum]

From the perspective of someone who has been a manager up to the Director level, here's my opinion.

Personal information about a co-worker who doesn't want you to know is none of your business.

Unless the requirements are written in the law somewhere, and your management decides to make an exception, that's not your business either.

If your supervisor wants to tell you why an exception is or has been made, it's her/his decision.

That's why they call it management.

Besides, you say it's a rumor anyway -- this woman may in fact have a doctorate for all anyone knows.

Sorry to be so curt, but that's how I see it. Put yourself in her place and think how you would feel if it happened to you.

[HappyKappy]

It seems to me that you probably shouldn't have asked the question (not that I disagree with your asking it, but most people seem to find it inappropriate). I really don't think it was right for your boss to speak with the entire staff about the issue. It isn't as if you harassed her about it (you only asked her once, right?). If you had continued to pursue the issue, then it would become a problem. I'm guessing that maybe a lot of people in your office have asked her that, leading to the group confrontation. I mean, no adult would go crying to their boss over that one question unless she had been asked my several people. Right?

[AChiOAlumna]

I've worked in state, city and county positions for 13 years. Politics reign the way things are run, not qualifications. On paper, her intended position may have required a 4-year degree, but if she has the experience, the right connections, etc, it may not matter that she doesn't have a 4-year degree.

I've seen people who held no degree (not even an AA/AS) go from a bottom rung of the ladder to upper management just for knowing the right things to say or pulling the right favors. I've seen people with terrible emotional problems, who would've been dealt with appropriately (not necessarily fired as they're covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act) in the private sector, get promotion after promotion because the supervisor did not know how to deal with the situation correctly.

That all being said, bluntly asking another for their qualifications in a government position will not help nor deter the impending promotion...it just gets others in a lot of hot water...government positions (that I've seen) prefer to go with the "dont-get-involved-unless-it-directly-affects-you" policy...

[mu_agd]

Honestly, I'd be pissed if someone came up to me in an accusatory way and asked me that.. it is none of that person's business. However, if it was small-talk in a conversation, I don't think I'd be that mad.


So I'm going to have to agree with the co-worker for getting upset and the boss telling the department to mind their own business.

[KSigkid]

From the way you described the situation, I'd say you were in the wrong. With the timing of your question, plus the fact that you are not involved in the hiring process, you just should not have asked.

[three2tango]

I've had a night to sleep on this issue and I still feel the same way. I was promoted because I have a four year degree. I had to bust my ass to get a B in advanced accounting and I am not going to stand by and watch the rules be bent for someone who does not qualify. Furthermore the requirement for that position is still a degree in Accounting or Finance. This is a government position- life experience means nothing. That is why you have 50 year old secretary's making 20K --sad as that is. They could do my job easily with about 4 months of training but they aren't allowed and I don't think this girl should be either.

As for the statement that said "where do you live" and did you pay your rent last month -----I asked her did she have a degree- not anything about her GPA or did she take remedial math.

I really am shocked that any of you agree with this issue. Asking someone if they have a degree not wrong.


PS- I am taking my degree in an hanging it on the wall this morning.

[agdbirmingham]

I think you have every right to be upset if she gets the job and doesn't meet the minimum qualifications. It's kind of a slap in the face to you and others. I had a similar situation when I finished my MBA. I was "told" the job I had was an upper level job and that they would ONLY take people with experience and MBA's. After I had been there a few months they then hired several people with NO experience (like not even McDonald's), and they had just finished their Bach. They also started hiring manager's kids, friends, etc! I just figured they were going a different route then they originally planned, and I eventually left.

But, I have to agree with a lot of other people and say that asking her flat out maybe wasn't the best approach (Sorry!). No reason to blame her and make her feel bad. You can't blame her for wanting to get promoted. I'd be more upset with the managers. So she hasn't actually gotten promoted yet? Maybe it won't happen. And maybe it will be a good opportunity for you and others to get promoted again then or take another job that maybe you wouldn't have "qualified" for before?

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by three2tango
I've had a night to sleep on this issue and I still feel the same way. I was promoted because I have a four year degree. I had to bust my ass to get a B in advanced accounting and I am not going to stand by and watch the rules be bent for someone who does not qualify. Furthermore the requirement for that position is still a degree in Accounting or Finance. This is a government position- life experience means nothing. That is why you have 50 year old secretary's making 20K --sad as that is. They could do my job easily with about 4 months of training but they aren't allowed and I don't think this girl should be either.

As for the statement that said "where do you live" and did you pay your rent last month -----I asked her did she have a degree- not anything about her GPA or did she take remedial math.

I really am shocked that any of you agree with this issue. Asking someone if they have a degree not wrong.


PS- I am taking my degree in an hanging it on the wall this morning.

You asked for advice...we gave you advice. You can be as upset as you want about the situation, but you still shouldn't have flat out asked her about her degree like that, with the situation being what it is.

This is life - you're going to run into situations where less-qualified people will be promoted, and if you continue to drive yourself crazy over every time it happens, you're going to make yourself miserable.