trouble ahead?

[Erik P Conard]

With some of the sororities, even outside the south, reaching the
numbers over 150....what happened to traditional exhanges?
I was in our TKE colony meeting Sat. with our group of 50+ and
one mentioned it took SAE & TKE colonies, both, just to function
with one sorority pledge class at U of CO--Boulder
Beta at KU has won virtually everything forever with 80 + men,
and could take 200, I suppose, if they wanted.
But they are a top-flite outfit and very selective, virtually no
attrition. Alums raise millions for any whim...in two days.
What can be said of the 150 and upwards outfits?
I had a Pi Phi cousin at CU in a chapter of nearly 175 girls; most
went inactive their junior year and the chapter continued to get
pledge classes with the ridiculous quota of 70 or 80.
Compare the (ridiculous) quotas for the girls in NY vs dixie....
Wow! Not even close to sisterhood....
This, at least to me, is insane.
This defies fraternity, at least as I knew it.
And my word, talk to an old Zete or Chi Psi or Delta Phi and they
thought 25 was huge!
The composite article was humorous--imagine one with 250 girls
on it. Need a magnifying glass to identify "sisters."
Naw, the southern belles can have their superficial chapters of
200 plus...but something has been lost in the translation.

[KSUViolet06]

Erik, you fail to understand that the concept of fraternity doesn't solely lie in numbers, race, houses or other things. It lies in brother or sisterhood. Ask our Ole Miss or Alabama ladies, size doesn't matter when it comes to quality of sisterhood.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by Erik P Conard
With some of the sororities, even outside the south, reaching the
numbers over 150....what happened to traditional exhanges?
I was in our TKE colony meeting Sat. with our group of 50+ and
one mentioned it took SAE & TKE colonies, both, just to function
with one sorority pledge class at U of CO--Boulder
Beta at KU has won virtually everything forever with 80 + men,
and could take 200, I suppose, if they wanted.
But they are a top-flite outfit and very selective, virtually no
attrition. Alums raise millions for any whim...in two days.
What can be said of the 150 and upwards outfits?
I had a Pi Phi cousin at CU in a chapter of nearly 175 girls; most
went inactive their junior year and the chapter continued to get
pledge classes with the ridiculous quota of 70 or 80.
Compare the (ridiculous) quotas for the girls in NY vs dixie....
Wow! Not even close to sisterhood....
This, at least to me, is insane.
This defies fraternity, at least as I knew it.
And my word, talk to an old Zete or Chi Psi or Delta Phi and they
thought 25 was huge!
The composite article was humorous--imagine one with 250 girls
on it. Need a magnifying glass to identify "sisters."
Naw, the southern belles can have their superficial chapters of
200 plus...but something has been lost in the translation.

UMMM..... our chapter had 25 actives when I initiated. We now have 45. Our sisterhood is stronger now even though we have a larger group. One chapter on campus has abotut 20 members... half the size of the other 2 NPCs.... they have a really strong sisterhood. So where the hell do you get your speculations? Or have you analyzed every single sorority or fraternity in the country?

[TylerG18]

I have to say that you can have true brotherhood/sisterhood with large number groups, but you have to build slowly in my opinion. Several years ago our chapter decided to go big. We went real big. My pledge class was 35 when we had 25 actives. We rushed 25+ for the next 3 semesters. The result? In my opinion we moved to fast and moved away from our core values. Many of the members who were initiated never formed many personal relationships and never really got what Teke is all about and as a result dropped. Out of the 100 members that have been initiated in my chapter since I came through, 30 of them are truly active. Fortunately we've realized our mistake and are coming back to our values and trying to reidentify ourselves with the greek community here at UCF. My advice to anyone who wants to go big...is build a strong pledge program first and establish an identity for yourselves. The time to decide the direction of the chapter is before you go big, not after. Make sure that the people who decide the direction of the chapter are going to be there for a significant amount of time and are going to follow through and take leadership positions. If you wait until you're big then you have all these people with their own opinions about what the chapter needs to be. I'm not saying that those opinions aren't valid, but the most important thing to have is direction. What that direction is doesn't matter, as long as everyone works together towards a common goal. That to me is what true brotherhood/sisterhood is about.

[PhiNuBlue]

I dont see anything wrong with big numbers if they are dedicated members that work to get to know their brothers or sisters. Thats what it comes down to. As mentioned above, sisterhood or brotherhood.

QUALITY NOT QUANTITY!

[Erik P Conard]

yep, we must agree to disagree.
but I think some of your reasoning is flat-ass dumb;
you will never prove to me that a "sorority" of 250
sisters has the closeness that 60 has, and while I
have not surveyed every campus, I can damned well
tell you that most chapters over 150 have no clue...
A seven million dollar palace does not make it, but
within the value systems of some, perhaps it does...

[PhiNuBlue]

thats a stereotype


it may be true of some but not all

[kddani]

Originally posted by Erik P Conard
flat-ass dumb... I can damned well
tell you that most chapters over 150 have no clue... A seven million dollar palace does not make it, but
within the value systems of some, perhaps it does...

BTW- there's a lot of us who think your posts are "flat-ass dumb" and rude.

[adpiucf]

UCF boasts some of those larger sorority chapters, and I feel our Greek System and chapters share a kinship and closeness that other more "typical sized" chapters or Greek Systems do not.

Erik, I can understand where you are coming from, because you haven't experienced collegiate membership in a large chapter, or in a sorority, for that matter... but while I appreciate your perspective on general Greek history and current events, I don't appreciate an uninformed opinion on chapter size and its effect on perceived "brotherhood" and "sisterhood." I don't expect an apology, but I regard you as an intelligent person. I encourage you to consider the life of today's college student at a large university with a high emphasis on Greek Life and to look at all the current sorority programming that emphasizes leadership, delegation and acclimation to chapter life-- these accomodate chapters large and small.

Having come from a large chapter of nearly 200, and working with chapters whose numbers range in the 50's, I can tell you that the spirit of teamwork, morale and friendship ran very high in my large chapter, and was a huge motivating force in my collegiate life to do good and be my best.

ETA: This is not to say that smaller chapters do not share special bonds, and closeness, but I find no merit to the arguement that larger chapters don't have strong "sisterhood" and "brotherhood."

[OleMissGlitter]

Here at Ole Miss our 9 NPCs have an average size of about 250. It is hard to have swaps/exchanges with fraternities that are smaller but then again, not every single member is going to be at a social. Now I know at meals it can be difficult, however, I know for a fact that every single chapter here at Ole Miss has some of the best sisterhood in the country. It does not matter how big the chapter is, all that matters is that the chapter lives by their ritual daily! I also agree with some of ya'll, that no matter the size, a sorority can function and can have ritual. I have met AOIIs from all over the country and Canada; our chapter sizes might differ but our common bond is the same. I will say this, I think The Ole Miss Greek System is a wonderful example that having larger chapters can work. Anyway, that's my thoughts.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

I understand Erik P. Conrad's point. I liked having forty to fifty something sisters. When I first read about sororities that had pledge/new member classes bigger than my entire chapter, I was really surprised. I couldn't imagine being close to so many women. I don't understand how that would work. I think being in a smaller chapter makes it easier to be close. I think that being in a larger chapter provides benefits that I can't imagine since I didn't experience that.

I'm not criticizing. I respect that what works for some chapters at some schools won't work for other chapters. I think that there are pros and cons in each situation.

[33girl]

I personally would not have felt comfy in a chapter of 200...but then again, at the time, I picked the chapter of 30 over the chapter of 60 because I wanted a smaller chapter. That's just me. Some of our sisters HATED being smaller and wanted us to have 60+. To me, that's just personal preference. It's the same with people who choose a college with 1000 students over a college with 25,000 students.

I don't think 200 sisters can ALL know each other up and down the way we did, but you can still form lasting friendships within that chapter.

I do agree with what Erik is saying about retention - I don't see the sense in crowing over making quota every year if half those girls aren't even active by graduation. That applies to the North, South, East OR West...it's kind of hard to promote "sisterhood for a lifetime" if so many people can't even manage four years.

And you can ask several fraternities to mix with you at once. More choice that way.

[KSUViolet06]

It's true, you're a guy, in a FRATERNITY, you really can't speculate on sorority life and make general statements like you do. You've made several rude generalizations in the past as if you are the "know all" of greek life. (i.e. Chapters without houses are not within your concept of fraternity/sorority, black/multicultural organizations are not real fraternities/sororities). Those have offended many people.

[ZZ-kai-]

Erik, if it means anything, I agree. And yes, I also agree, Beta at KU dominates.

Originally posted by Erik P Conard
yep, we must agree to disagree.
but I think some of your reasoning is flat-ass dumb;
you will never prove to me that a "sorority" of 250
sisters has the closeness that 60 has, and while I
have not surveyed every campus, I can damned well
tell you that most chapters over 150 have no clue...
A seven million dollar palace does not make it, but
within the value systems of some, perhaps it does...

[emleepc]

Clearly, each chapter of each sorority or fraternity varies campus to campus. Large numbers or small numbers---who can say if one chapters' sisterhood or brotherhood is strong? I cam from a small chapter that grew larger while I was there, and when I graduated, the chapter was just as strong as it was when I started college. Each group goes through changes in numbers and people. And those people determine the makeup of the chapter, not the numbers!!! So, large or small, the bonds are there.